I've been brewing for about a year now and I try to limit the amount of money I spent on gear as much as I can. As a result of i've been trolling craigslist for about a year now to replace my crappy homemade immersion chiller. I build this chiller back when I was first starting out and made a few mistakes. In an effort to save money, I used 1/4 inch copper piping. My cooling times were of course rather long with this chiller and I've been drooling over Jamil's whirlpool chiller for a long time. The problem with Jamil's chiller, even though it is a work of genius, is that it requires a pump, putting the overall cost of this chiller around 200 dollars.

The advantage of J's chiller is that the wort is moving over the chiller coils. This is important because otherwise the wort just by the coils would be much colder than the overall temperature of the wort and thus chilling time is greatly increased. (the higher the temperature differential between coil and wort, the better). Instead of using a pump, I decided to try to use equipment I already had on hand to duplicate this.

Instead of creating a whirlpool in my boil kettle I decided to try the following. I first carefully transferred the hot wort into a plastic bucket added my 0 minute addition hops and a sanitized 50 mm stir bar. I then placed the entire bucket on my stirplate and began chilling.

Results: I managed to cut my cooling time by a factor of 3. For a 5 gallon batch I went for around 45 minutes to 15. Using a proper immersion chiller, I am certain this can still be improved upon though.

Disadvantages:
1) no whirlpool effect - trub will be in fermentor.
2) care must be taken during transfer to avoid oxidizing hot wort. (unless you have a nonmagnetic pot)

I am still experimenting with this, but I'd love to hear some thoughts.

Cheers

OlliG

Why not just stir the wort in the boiler as it is chilling?? that is what I do and Mine cools under 10 for 5 gallons every time..

I'd be worried about oxidation, not only with the transfer, but with the whirlpooling itself. That said. moving wort around a chiller definitely helps a lot.

This concern over oxidation confuses me. Up until now I've always been under the impression that after doing a full boil some aeration was benficial to the yeast especially when we attempt to remove all of the trub. The reasoning being the trub provides nutrients/oxygen to the yeast and so if we remove the trub we must somehow add oxygen. Once the vigorous primary fermentation has stopped then we begin to be concerned about oxygen and the wort. As I said this is my understanding but I'm not 100% sure.

BTW. I like the ingenuity using the stir plate.

Myself, I just hang about cleaning and every so often stir with my SS paddle that I leave in the pot for the boil or shake my IC.

Regarding the pipe diameter, The most crucial dimension is overall surface area, as this is where the heat is transferred. As long as the water coming out of the chiller is still cold (still removing heat). You'll benefit more by a longer pipe being used than increased diameter.

A couple hints to increase I.C. heat transfer effienciency.

Restrict water flow out of chiller. Not so much that it isn't flowing just so that there is a little back pressure. This back pressure helps increase heat transfer (we did this one night on an oil cooler on a machine running a rush order. Thanks to this trick we were able to keep the machine running until the next morning when Maintenance Dept. showed up.)

Turbulence. Put a 90 degree fitting on the chiller on the in side. This will create turbulence in the water causing the water in the pipe to be stirred. Otherwise water on the wall will travel slower than that in the middle of the pipe and tend to stay there as the water inside will tend to stay there. ( I realize that the coil will stir the water up a bit but I'm sure this will help).

mmmm I need to go brew something now. there's work to be done.

the concern over oxidation is only while hot... Hot Splash Aeration I think is what it is called.... once cool its no big deal..

Yea you don't want to splash the wort while it's hot. That can lead to off flavors, but once it's cooled, yes you want to aerate it by pouring it back and forth or using an air pump so they yeast have oxygen.

This method works well. If you let the wort sit 20-30min after your done then everything settles out. Not sure were you guys are seeing oxidation.

Now, I quit doing this and went back to moving my chiller and no whirlpool. I still pump ice water through the chiller. I think thats the real trick.

Hot Side Aeration - as peole said, it's when the wort is hot, but it really only affects beer in the long term. So unless you're bottling the beer and cellering it for 2+ years, you probably won't recognize any of the flavors associated with HSA.

I have an immersion and from boiling to about 130 (give or take 10), it cools so fast, you can watch the needle drop. A sanitized spoon (or put it in when it's still at 212) is good enough if you want to whirlpool it a little.

My only concern with the OP is "I first carefully transferred the hot wort into a plastic bucket" - I assume at 212? I'm not entirely sure the plastic should be heated that high. I'm not plastic chemist or anything, but HDPE buckets aren't made for those temps, otherwise I'd just boil my wort in a bucket, then chill and cap it as a fermenter.

Unfortunately copper tubing is pretty expensive right now. I made an immersion chiller out of 25' of tubing and 2 washing machine hoses, with one end cut off each. Works pretty well though.

Bryan I have seen videos of Europeans boiling in buckets.. one guy even said he boils cools and ferments in the same bucket..

I'm sure it *can* be done, but I'd be wary of what leaches into your beer. People were all freaked out over BPA (or whatever) in water bottles. imagine putting boiling liquid in plastic and then drinking the result.

There's a plastic boil kettle out there, but it's not HDPE, it's some plastic that's rated for those temps.

Why not just sanitize the stir bar and put it right into the kettle?

Whirlpool ala JZ will introduce a ton of O2 into the wort. That's one side-effect of the whirlpool. Siphoning properly from one vessel to the next wouldn't be any worse.

I echo thoughts about 212 wort into those buckets. It may be fine, but over time, I'd worry a bit.

"Whirlpool ala JZ will introduce a ton of O2 into the wort."

Why do you say that? If he doesn't have any leaks in his system, he's just moving wort around. O2 isn't present.

I made a counterflow chiller based on a design on homebrewtalk for about $40. It is gravity fed and works much better than an immersion chiller.

I just put a wooden spoon on the end of a drill to whirlpool. It means I have to sit there while I chill but it works pretty good, considering I only have a 25 foot chiller.

Done plenty of Whirlpooling and never had a problem with O2.

interesting and risky thing to do....

Maybe I missed the post but your safety needs to be watched. Lifting that much HOT liquid is just unsafe. Good god my man, protect your back and it will protect you.

I also want to point out be careful of transferring too often... Easy way to introduce a few bad bugs to the mix...

There are some good points being made above. Heed the advice.

Do tell me, a stir bar in a bucket? Good god man, what size stir plate it it? Seriously I've been toying with the idea of building a large double stir plate for my buckets. I was thinking of trying this to see what it does to my fermentation times on some large beers this winter.

WAbrewer and Brewmaster Cannon. thanks for the clarification.

PLASTICS: You can maintain a "softened" melt in HDPE at 250 degrees F. That's the temp we'd hold our machines at for standby. At 212 F you can be sure that chemical reactions are taking place in the resin and I would strongly advise against doing so in any plastic bucket but especially one that was not purpose built for that use.

Based on the intended use of a particular product the industry will use different additives. Some for Color, anti-static properties, UV protection, antibacterial compounds, waxes to aid in conveying the pellets to the machines or evenly distributing the dye through the resin many of these are poisonous, carcinogens and so on. The point is plastics are full of chemical that people only claim to have a thorough understanding of.

If your bucket was intended for pickles or ice cream it could easily have addittives that differ from the "bruheat" buckets some of our European counterparts use. In closing I wouldn't use any colored (white or anything but the translucent carboys) plasticsat all and certainly not for anything hotter than fermenting temps. But that's just me and my 10 years in the plastics industry and many poisonings and chemical burns may have left me a little biased..


BTW... I am looking for work that doesn't poison me anymore.

Once again, thanks Paul, your insight in the plastics industry is most respected.

The mentioning of Bruheat tuns got me to looking at a few UK based LHBS supply sites. Our comrades on the right side of the pond have some cool tools for sale. One could elicit some good hardware ideas.

http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/acatalog/AoB_OnLine_Catalogue_Beer_Mashing_Equipment_________18.html

Where is Richard when we need him?

Unless you're whirlpooling in a O free environment. A whirlpool brings in air and O2 just like a stir plate does in a yeast starter. The air comes in from the whirlpool effect. Any time the surface is moving you're getting some oxygenation. I shouldn't have said "a ton" but it gets in there. The difference is that you're cooling the wort down so fast in JZ's method that the (alleged) affects of HSA are negligible.