Say it aint so......

http://beeradvocate.com/forum/read/2970833

I wonder if they mean small sales? 1# here, 1oz of hops there. I can see that being a PITA for them. We (as a club) are typically given commercial prices when we order by the pallet.

If not, we might either have to setup a fake LHBS, or work with the owner of one of the local ones. if I have to pay $90 for a sack of grain like the other LHBS around here, I may just quit brewing.

Bryan, I don't think it will apply to you. In fact, I'll bet they're just trying to concentrate on large orders and not necessarily singling out homebrewers.

That's what I'm betting on. We usually fill a whole pallet and get it delivered to a loading dock, so I hope they realize and appreciate our business.

it says it will stop all "non-commercial sales" that seems pretty plain and simple to me..

could have to do with all the new financial regulations and added paperwork ?? not worth the added crap to supply homebrewers with smaller orders?? but that is for the other forum..Sorry

isn't anything where money is exchanged or profit made, commercial?

I agree with them not selling pounds of malt to homebrewers. But I don't think that'll stop bulk orders that, as I said before, were treated as commercial.

It looks like they have 5 or so new distribution points? Did they buy someone out? No doubt, some of their larger customers (homebrew stores) demanded that they stop selling directly to homebrewers.

I'll pay the $20 to register my homebrew club as a commercial entity if it comes to it. I'm not paying $90 a sack from the local rip-off artist.

They need a location in East Texas.

$90 a sack is what we have to pay up here for MO or German Pils, your higher quality malts. They screw us on shipping costs. But if I wanted to buy a sack from NCM, they would hit me for $146 just for shipping. Even at $90 a sack, I can still brew for cheaper than I could buy beer of similar quality, and I get to brew it which is just something I enjoy doing.

they have one here in Vancouver WA now but they are only allowing Commercial orders they said they needed my Tax ID number for my business... I said it was for my Homebrew club and they said that they were unable to provide those services any longer..

Not sure how to go about getting bulk orders now

How long ago was that and how much were you trying to buy?

I just called the number today to talk to them about getting an order he did not go into detail he just said It needed to be a business only and I needed my Tax ID because it was a tax thing..

But I know the last couple times I ordered they did not have an office up here..now they do but it is only for businesses

That sucks.

just called their customer support here is what the lady said


"no we will not be doing any more homebrewing services it was too complicated and it has become a tax issue that brought on even more issues."

I asked her what about a brew club buying by the pallet

"we would still not be able to do that you would need a commercial license and a tax Id number for proper tax reporting"

We don't charge tax on food products, so that really doesn't apply here. I might have to open a homebrew shop in the future.

I believe its the federal tax on businesses due to the new Financial reg bill.. they have to submit a 1099( i think that's the right form) For every purchase over s specific dollar amount and I believe being classified as Whole sale that there is also a penalty if they sell below certain quantity at a time..


And there is no food tax here either ...But I can see one soon...

Oh well, I have a year or 2 before I need to start worrying about it.

So you guys who are affected by this... do you have a brewery close by that could help you out? homebrew shop that could?

I can buy any Briess product by the 50lb sack at my local brewpub for $25. I do pilot brew experiments for him and he is interactive with our local hb club also. Real good guy.

I posted to our forum on what to do.
The two credible options right now are:

1) talk to the LHBS or brewpub to get them to order on our behalf.
2) register for a tax ID from our DRS for $100. It would require us to fill out a 1 page tax form every quarter, which would basically be zeroes.

I could also talk to my godfather since he's self-employed. Maybe we can use his number.

Bryan, if you tell them that you're a small business with only yourself as an employee, you really don't need one:

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=97872,00.html

Also, not sure where you heard it costs $100:

"Check out our Interview-style online EIN application. No need to file a Form SS-4! We ask you the questions and you give us the answers. The application includes embedded help topics and hyperlinked keywords and definitions so separate instructions aren’t needed. After all validations are done you will get your EIN immediately upon completion. You can then download, save, and print your confirmation notice. It’s fast, free, and user-friendly!"

BB said: We don't charge tax on food products, so that really doesn't apply here. I might have to open a homebrew shop in the future.

Calif doesn't have tax on grains neither, but as for opening a LHBS that will make you very busy once you open that Gay Pork Lounge next door to the mosque that Pelosi is going to visit...

That's my state's fee for licensing a business. (Which I've done in the past)

EIN's not the same as a sales and tax registration number. That's more for employee income tax issues, not sales.

http://www.ct.gov/drs/cwp/view.asp?a=1463&q=447802

Looks like one of our member's wife might let us use her business.

And our only exemption for food is vending machines and seed that can be used to grow crops. Since the grain is malted, I don't think it'd qualify, technically.

I'm guessing that if you've ordered by the pallet before, you already have an account setup with them and it won't be a problem. I'm certainly going to try before I go to this trouble.

Sorry, but I think Federal Tax ID and EIN are the same thing, unless you're talking about on the state level:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/taxidhowtoget.htm

That'd be nice, and we'll certainly try, but I'm glad we have a pre-planned alternative ready if we need it.

I've been thinking about Homebrew clubs taking on the role of a Co-op for a long time now (it just makes sense). I know LHBS owners hate the sound of it, but if we can do stuff more efficiently then it is what it is. All you need is a partnership (no incorporation or paperwork needed), and an EIN number. While I don't know what a "commercial license" is, it sounds like that would vary by state.

@BryansBrew: Where did you hear this?: "I believe its the federal tax on businesses due to the new Financial reg bill.. they have to submit a 1099( i think that's the right form) For every purchase over s specific dollar amount and I believe being classified as Whole sale that there is also a penalty if they sell below certain quantity at a time.. "

I am having a difficult time understanding what you believe the situation to be.

The Federal Tax ID can be the EIN [employer identification number] or social security number, this is for income tax filing. What they need is a sales and use tax number or whatever it is called in your state., however sales across state lines are not subject to sales tax. This may be a new federal reg which is probably not Constitutional or maybe they don't want to deal with small orders anymore. Anyway we could start a co-op or a not for profit org to get a tax ID number.

NCM has a acquired a distributor and all of this is to protect this new distributor. They also plan on expending their distribution. They're just trying to weed out the little guys, but if you come to them with a large order (Pallet size) I'll bet you can work out something.

Beer 4 Blood where are you at in MO I only pay $28 for a 50lbs I can get you a deal

Mark that was me that said that about the taxes...When I called the lady told me that due to changes and complications in the taxes it has become an issue and they would no longer be able to service anyone without a commercial business license and a Tax ID..

And I know a lot of small business owners that have had to hire extra accountants to help them with the new regulations because they have to submit a 1099 for each business that they have purchases and sales over certain amounts.....

Apparently they are jumping the gun. I would say that the refusing to sell to individuals is probably policy changes on their part but the 1099 rules are changing... in 2012...

"Until now, payments to corporations have been exempt from 1099 rules, as have payments for the purchase of goods.

Starting in 2012, that changes. All business payments or purchases that exceed $600 in a calendar year will need to be accompanied by a 1099 filing. That means obtaining the taxpayer ID number of the individual or corporation you're making the payment to" - CNN Money

So if you want to buy more than $600 bucks worth of stuff in a year you will need to give up your EIN. However, as an individual your SSN is your EIN so they should be able to accept that. If this company is not that is a company policy thing. If they don't want your money I would say find someone who does.

Our bill is usually around $1200 per delivery. And sometimes we do two in a year.

Well, one of our members has an LLC and a tax number, so I'm fairly confident that we can use that.

I don't get it, NCM is not making payments to the one buying their malt, they are taking our money so why the 1099.

its payments to or purchases from.. basically any transaction over 600

Why is the government monitoring our purchases? I know this is for the other forum, but it's very scary.

What BB, how can you not see how this is related to health care. Of Course it had to be in that bill!

Glad we got our group buy in within the last 12 months. This could really cut down on brewing

Ender I agree, but lets debate it in the other forum

here's the e-mail we received back from NCM:

===

Below is what we posted on Beer Advocate - you are fine as you are a repeat
customer.

We recently acquired Brewcraft and intend to open up other distribution
points in the near future.

However, we appreciate the continued business our loyal homebrew customers
have given us. With that being said we intend to continue to make our
current product line available to our current home brew accounts but we will
not be accepting new home brew customers. HB customers who have done
business with NC and MC over the past 12 months can place orders by calling
our toll free number or emailing orders@northcountrymalt.com.

Trisha Hunt
Inside Sales/Office Manager
North Country Malt 888 368-5571
Mid Country Malt 866 428-1438

WooHoo!!

I called them. They intend to honor orders from existing customers. They really seem to be decent people, I have no reason to believe I was being misled. She sounded like she had a few high anxiety calls like mine.

Breath easy, and stay thirsty my friends...

Lucky you, but us newer brewers are still sh*t out of luck Now I'll have to go and find a friend who works for a brew pub and get in on their orders lol

Re ^

"We recently acquired Brewcraft and intend to open up other distribution
points in the near future."

Sounds like they may be setting up a seperate retail option for homebrewers.

If not, find someone local who is an existing customer and add to their pallet. It's quite hard to do that on your own, and really the only reason to order from NCM. Their hop prices and per-pound grain prices are nothing special.

This just sucks.

Was just getting ready to place an Order.
Just now figured this out.

I like what there selling, But can't say I'm wild about the people running the business.