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Subject: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Nov 19th, 2004
6:56 pm
Nate,

When you get a chance, can you post that La Chouffe clone recipe you spoke of in the yeast culturing topic? I am interested in the hop additions that you used as well. Here is the info you gave there:
-----------
~9.0 lbs of Pilsner malt
~2.0 lbs crystal 10
`1.25 clear candy sugar
For the spices, there was coriander, cummin, and caraway; don't remember the amounts, though. I can type it up, but not until I get back home.
-----------
Chris
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Nov 19th, 2004
6:59 pm
Sorry to take so ding-dang long. I will have it up shortly. Got to go get it.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Nov 19th, 2004
7:02 pm
Thanks
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Nov 19th, 2004
7:35 pm
Ahh Chooff!!

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 7.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 15.57
Anticipated OG: 1.084 Plato: 20.28
Anticipated SRM: 9.5
Anticipated IBU: 32.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-------------------------------------------------------------------
87.2 13.59lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
7.8 1.21lbs. Candi Sugar(clear) Generic 1.046 1
5.0 0.78lbs. Crystal 10L America 1.035 10

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1.32 oz. Czech Saaz Whole 2.60 10.1 90 min.
1.87 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 4.00 22.0 90 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
-------------------------------------------------------------------
0.09 Oz Caraway Seed Spice 15 Min.(boil)
0.17 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 15 Min.(boil)
0.17 Oz Cumin Seed Spice 15 Min.(boil)
1.10 Tsp Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)
1.10 Tsp Yeast Nutrient Other 15 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: Sneezy Beer

Total Grain Lbs: 14.36
Total Water Qts: 14.51 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 3.63 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 70.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Protein 1 30 123 123 Infuse 133 14.51 1.01
Sacch. 1 60 149 149 Infuse 210 7.41 1.53
Mashouty 1 5 169 169 Infuse 210 12.09 2.37


Total Water Qts: 34.01 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 8.50 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 9.65 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Nov 19th, 2004
7:55 pm
The yeast was actually from a bottle of La Chouffe.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Nov 19th, 2004
8:05 pm
Thanks again,

I was curious about two things - you have no aroma hops - just bittering. Do they not use any aroma in the recipe? Also, this will only be my 3rd AG - can I skip the Protein rest or is it required. I was hoping to keep this as simple as possible and just do a single infusion.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Nov 19th, 2004
8:10 pm
No aroma hops.
I would think that a single infusion would be just fine since most pilsner malts these days are pretty well modified.
Overall this is a really simple beer to make.
One more thing, add the sugar when there is about 30 minutes left in the boil. Not sure if it makes that much difference, but that is what I did. Just don't add it to the mash
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: DConn
Nov 19th, 2004
8:15 pm
Belgian beers in general seldom use aroma hops.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Nov 19th, 2004
8:26 pm
Thanks - i am hoping this beer goes well - it's one of my favs and don't want to screw this one up! Now I need to fugure out how to keep the fermenter in the warmer temps during primary.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Nov 19th, 2004
8:44 pm
Keep it in the house.
Wrapped with a towel, or blanket.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: BryansBrew
Nov 19th, 2004
8:50 pm
put a wig on it, take it to bed. It's ok- we won't tell.

Or put it in a water filled bucket and use an aquarium heater if you really want to go overboard
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: lambic
Nov 19th, 2004
8:53 pm
Say N8, where does the Cumin and Caraway come from?

As for aromahopping, i do aromahop a chouffe. Not too much though.

Herman
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Nov 19th, 2004
8:58 pm
Herman,

I remember that you spoke of some aroma hopping - do you think I can throw about .5 ounces (or 14 grams for you metric types) of Saaz in the boil for the last 5 minutes?

Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Nov 19th, 2004
8:59 pm
The spices were from a recipe I found in a book called Brewing European Beers, or something like that. I was going to ask you how you would get the flavors that La Chouffe has if not with spices. Even if La Chouffe originally doesn't use spices, this recipe is damn close.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: lambic
Nov 19th, 2004
9:14 pm
Chris,

.5 ounce sounds good. Mind you, as we are in a cloning thing we taste the stuff after about 3 months. If you plan on drinking sooner and want a good match, you could lower this amount.

N8, i'm familiar with the recipe. And yes, it's a great book. Perhaps Cumin and Caraway were once used, i'm pretty certain they're not any longer. The yeast itself is responsible for quit a bit spicyness. However, La Chouffe does use spices: coriander. I would up the amount though. Word of caution: don't grind the whole seeds, just crush them slightly in a mortar.

Herman
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Dec 17th, 2004
10:36 am
I was just investigating La Chouffe as I plan to brew a clone myself (pretty much using the recipe above). Thought you all might find this interesting:
http://www.achouffe.be/newen/brasserie.php
Confirms the use of Styrian and Saaz, and coriander.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Dec 17th, 2004
1:59 pm
Thanks for the link! I still have a week or two of aging in secondary for my first try at N8's recipe, but the sample I tasted from primary to secondary was delicious nonetheless. The Ardennes yeast I used (the La Chouffe yeast wouldn't step up in time) has a very pronounced flavor at this point and I think it will mellow a little with age. Do you guys think I should just bottle it in a week or two with some more yeast slurry?

Also, I brewed a second batch of the La Chouffe clone this past weekend and racked right onto the yeast cake - that beast is still going strong and should settle down in another week. After that is done, I might keg it so I can drink it a little young.

Chris

Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Dec 17th, 2004
2:13 pm
I just took a little trip to a nearby beer shop and purchased a couple of bottles of Kwelchouffe Special Blonde. Does anyone have any idea whether this uses the same yeast strain as La Chouffe? There's a nice heavy layer of sediment at the bottom and I was thinking of cultivating it.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: lambic
Dec 17th, 2004
2:22 pm
I've brewed with some recultured Kwelchouffe. It is suitable for primary fermentation (no off flavors), but i figure it's a bottling-strain and not the same as their primary strain. I finally decided to use some in conjunction with the Ardennes yeast and it continued were the Ardennes had stopped.

Herman
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Monty
Dec 17th, 2004
3:13 pm
I was wondering how you ferment with multiple yeasts.

Do you mix all the yeasts together in one starter and pitch at the same time, or do you pitch the primary, let it ferment, then pitch the secondary?

Or do you do both procedures depending on the beer?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: lambic
Dec 17th, 2004
3:26 pm
In this case i fermented with the Ardennes first. After it stopped at 1.024 (from 1.074), i decided to pitch a healthy starter. And i had just recultured the Kwelchouffe succesfully, so i just added that one. Otherwise, i would have added some Coopers dry yeast. I didn't want it too dry, however it fermented down to 1.006!

Herman
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: BryansBrew
Dec 17th, 2004
3:34 pm
you can do it either way, Monty, depending what you're trying to achieve. If, for example, you're trying to achieve a higher attenuation, you start with the yeast that's going to give you the flavor profile you want, and when that's done fermenting, you use something that attenuates more.

But, other than lambics, I don't really know of many reasons to pitch different yeasts unless there was a problem with the initial innoculation. Of course, we all make starters, so that shouldn't be a problem, right?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: wingnutsglory
Dec 18th, 2004
1:56 am
Herman,
Your Ardennes strain went to 1.024?
What results have others obtained?
My recent batch of La Chouffe (using Ardennes) is somewhat over-attenuated at 1.009. It's still really good, if a little dangerous.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Dec 18th, 2004
6:08 pm
Mine started at 1.081, then chewed down to 1.014 before I racked into 2nd. I used a cultured LaChouffe yeast, but I'm sure they are the same as the Ardennes.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: lambic
Dec 18th, 2004
8:16 pm
Recultured Chouffe is the same as Ardennes. I haven't got a clue why mine went down to only 1.024, i never experienced this problem with this yeast. As long as you ferment it warm.

Herman

Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Dec 18th, 2004
10:15 pm
Wingnut - my Ardennes/La Chouffe clone also is over anntuated, but still damn tasty! I am still waiting to get my 2nd batch out of primary - the yeasties are chewing away strong after 6 days.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Dec 20th, 2004
10:35 am
Rescued some yeast from two fresh bottles of La Chouffe on Saturday and threw it in a half pint starter. The airlock was bubbling after 10 minutes, fermented out in 24 hours! So much for flash pasteurising!

Ready to rock...
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: lambic
Dec 20th, 2004
9:06 pm
Congrats! Your suppliers must deal with the beer more carefully than mine does.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Dec 20th, 2004
9:10 pm
You know, Herman, I was thinking about that. You were saying that they pasterize the bottles now. I cultured the yeast out of the bottle as well. Are there two different botling plants, one that pasterizes, and one that doesn't? I don't understand why your LaChouffes are unculturable, and the ones Robson and myself aquired were fine. Does pasterization not kill all the yeast, or is there more to it?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: lambic
Dec 20th, 2004
9:32 pm
I wasn't saying they did, i just guessed they did. But it seems they don't.

I'm not familiar with bottling plants, but i read somewhere it is being brewed under license in Canada. It has also been brewed in the Netherlands, but that was years ago.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Dec 20th, 2004
9:48 pm
Yea, I heard the same thing about it being brewed in Canada. But still I wonder why the difference in the culturability?
But I guess at this point I have it slanted in my yeast bank, so I don't need to get it from the bottle any more anyway.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Dec 28th, 2004
2:36 pm
Well I am getting ready to bottle my first batch of the La Chouffe clone - it was in primary for two weeks and in secondary for another three weeks. I have seen several recipes for this clone that call for more yeast to be added to the bottling bucket.

Does anyone think that this is a necessary step or could I simply add my corn sugar and go from there?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Dec 28th, 2004
6:47 pm
When I bottled mine I had saved the yeast slurry from primary, then took a big spoonful and tossed it in the bottling bucket along with the priming sugar. Mostly to try to immitate the real thing. Don't know if it was necessary, but it worked fine for me.
I think I would err on the carbonating side and at least add a 1/2 packet of dry, neutral yeast.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Dec 28th, 2004
7:01 pm
N8 - I saved the slurry from primary as well (I must have about 2 quarts of it!) so I will just add about a TBSP to the first batch and then nothing to the second batch to see if I can find a defference.

On a different note - does anyone have a good recipe other than a La Chouffe clone for the Ardennes yeast? I have all this slurry and nothing to do with it.

Chris
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Dec 28th, 2004
7:09 pm
How about a Corn Tripple. It's a recipe out of the new Zymurgy about Belgian beers,

13# Pils malt
2# flaked corn
1.5# corn sugar
1.0 oz Styrian Golding hops, 4% @ 60 mins.
1.0 oz Styrian Golding hops, 4% @ 30 mins.
0.5 oz Crystal hops, 2.1% @ 15 mins.
Wyeast Ardennes yeast

Mash @ 150F 60 mins
mash out 168F
sparge with 168F water to collect 7gals.
Boil 120 mins. Cool to 70F and pitch yeast. Ferment at 67F for 2 weeks. Rack to 2nd for two more weeks.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: lambic
Dec 28th, 2004
11:25 pm
I even made a Bock with it once, as well as a IPA. Who cares about the style-police! My friends don't, they loved it!

Herman
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Dec 29th, 2004
2:10 pm
That's true Herman - Maybe I will do a roggenbier with this yeast and try and ferment it cool (like 62 degrees). This may not be for a month or two though - my wife is set to pop out our first child in the next week or two. I don't think I will be brewing for a while!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: wingnutsglory
Dec 29th, 2004
4:16 pm
I tried my Chouffe yesterday at almost two months and it's still got some really rough edges due to high alcohol. Also, there seems to be an issue with yeast bite. I haven't experienced it before, so I'm going on what I've read, but isn't this usually a yeasty, sulphurous taste/aroma due mainly to autolysis? Is there another cause? My problem seems to be a strong yeast component in the flavor profile, but no sulphur. I'm doubtful much autolysis occured since racking was timely.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Dec 29th, 2004
5:04 pm
I too noticed a yeasty and alcoholy bite to the chouffe, but this was when I did my initial racking from primary to secondary. I used the Wyeast Ardenne strain which is supposed to be the same as Chouffe. I put some in a PET bottle and carbed it with a carbonater cap for a few days and I was pretty impressed. The alcohol was there still, but the yeast tamed a little.

La Chouffe does have a noticeable yeast character to it, but not much alcohol. My clone is still in secondary, so I won't know much more till I transfer it and bottle it up.

Good Luck
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Jan 17th, 2005
3:42 pm
Robson Dec 19th, 2004 10:35 pm

"Rescued some yeast from two fresh bottles of La Chouffe on Saturday and threw it in a half pint starter. The airlock was bubbling after 10 minutes, fermented out in 24 hours! So much for flash pasteurising!

Ready to rock... "


That'll teach me for getting cocky...
This sounds ridiculous but I was actually mistaken! The airlock bubbling was just the starter wort warming up to room temperature after I had over-cooled it. Obviously this had stopped after 24 hours, at which point I threw it in the fridge. The sediment posing as yeast was just the proteins knocked out of suspension by the boiling and cooling of the malt extract. I realised my error two days before brewing when I transfered the sediment to a fresh half gallon starter and drank the "fermented" extract, which was surprisingly sweet.
I postponed the brew and made some ginger beer instead, and now after 4 days the half gallon starter has actually woken up, for real this time.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Feb 26th, 2005
12:15 am
Well I thought I would add an update to this beer.

The first batch I made was bottled and since I didn't add any extra yeast like I said I would it is still way undercarbed. I will give it another month before I start playing with it.

I just got done pulling the first draft off of the second batch (same recipe) and it is pretty damn good. Still has a pronounced Ardennes aroma and it's alot darker then Chouffe, but I still am loving it. The alocohol subsided from this batch alot - so the extended secondary really helped out.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Feb 28th, 2005
3:09 pm
Chris - how long was your secondary? I'm just about to transfer mine after a month in primary.
Mine's quite dark too, but I put this down to the fact that I used some light dry extract, which is annoyingly not very light at all. It's not as dark as McChouffe (which I actually prefer), I'm hoping it will turn out somewhere in between in both taste and colour.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Feb 28th, 2005
3:30 pm
How dark are you guys talking? Made came out to about a SRM of about 4. Which is about the same as LaChouffe.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Feb 28th, 2005
3:38 pm
Robson - I was in secondary for 6 weeks for the first batch and about 8 weeks for the secondary (no notes in front of me so give or take a few days)

N8 - mine came out at around 11 or 12 - I need to check ProMash - it is definitely not a 4.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Feb 28th, 2005
3:50 pm
At a very rough guess I'd say about 10, whereas I'd put McChouffe at about 20 (open to debate??)

However I do have a confession to make - as it was my first all-grain I used only 3kg pilsner malt and a 1.5kg tin of liquid extract just in case my conversion wasn't successful. This isn't too dark, but seeing as I used dry extract for the starter (which is supposed to be upto 5 SRM, but always seems much darker to me), I thought I might as well throw the reat of that (about 400g) in too.

Every time I have LaChouffe it's always lighter than I remember it being last time!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Feb 28th, 2005
3:54 pm
Cheers Chris - I was thinking a month and worried this might have been longer than necessary.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Feb 28th, 2005
4:01 pm
Robson - if you plan on bottling and would like to drink this beer relatively quickly (like less than a month) I would add extra yeast at bottling - this is a must, especially if you plan on aging the beer over one month like I did.

I still have bottles that haven't carbonated after 1 month in bottles at 65 degrees. I need to bring these bottles to warmer climes to see if they carb.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Feb 28th, 2005
4:05 pm
I am bottling but I'm not a massive hurry to drink it - I'm happy to wait as I'm sure it will get there eventually and probably be all the better for it. But I am in a hurry to get it out of the carboy so I can brew something else!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: wingnutsglory
Feb 28th, 2005
4:48 pm
Mine was also darker than the standard, but nowhere near McChouffe.

Though it seems backwards, I've always kegged stronger beers, so I have a few questions about bottling. When you pitch yeast at bottling, is it dry yeast? Which dry yeasts are tolerant of high alcohol? I know champagne is, but isn't there an issue with it fermenting sugars that beer yeast won't?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Feb 28th, 2005
5:14 pm
I reckon I would have been on target with the colour if it wasn't for the extract. Next time I'll do it properly.
I love the yeast though, the airlock smell is amazing (especially with the coriander), and even the starter tasted great. I want to use that yeast for everything from now on.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Mar 10th, 2005
11:01 am
Racked to secondary last night - WOW!

OG ~ 1070
Current SG = 1012

It's come out lighter than I expected, it's still darker than the real thing but it's actually a really pleasant golden colour (better than the real one I reckon). It's very cloudy, I didn't use any finings, but I'm hoping a lot will settle out (planning to leave it a month in secondary, slightly colder than ferment temp?).

As for the taste... spot on. The yeast really is the star of the show (the starter tasted like Chouffe), but the coriander certainly helps. There's a slightly bitter lingering aftertaste, but again I'm hoping this will fade with time.

Apologies for the excitement and long post - this is the most involved brew I've done and I'm well pleased. I've just got to make sure I don't cock it up now!

Cheers N8!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Mar 10th, 2005
12:27 pm
Glad to hear it came out well!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Mar 10th, 2005
1:10 pm
By the way has anyone got any suggestions of another beer I can brew with the yeast? It's such a distinctive yeast, and La Chouffe is a comparatively new beer - I can't believe it's the only commercial beer which uses it?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: cpasquini
Mar 10th, 2005
1:49 pm
I think you can brew a Saison with it - it might not be totally in style for a Saison, but it seems like it would come out pretty good.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Mar 10th, 2005
3:22 pm
Congrats Robson,
I'll agree, this is an involved beer. But damn worth it when it is done. Not one to rush.

I made a tripple with this yeast. I think it turned out really well. I like it. It's a corn Tripple.
it consists of: Pils, flaked corn(maize), candy sugar, and some spices.

Or you could try a darker type, like something with some dark malts, and/or dark candy sugar.

A Saison, or Biere de Garde would be good as well.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Mar 10th, 2005
4:39 pm
Well, it was involved for me as it was my first all(almost)-grain.

I'll have a look into the Biere de Garde (seen a recipe on another thread), or maybe I'll be troubling you for the corn tripple recipe.

Cheers!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: BryansBrew
Mar 10th, 2005
4:54 pm
the ardennes in a BdG would probbaly make a good beer, but I don't think it'll give you a traditional BdG flavor. After having about 6 different commercial examples of it last weekend, you need a pretty clean yeast.

I bought some ardennes for the BdG but decided against it, so I think I'll try N8's recipe here. Sounds tasty.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: rob
Mar 11th, 2005
12:18 am
N8: Didn't I hear somewhere that corn doesn't belong in beer?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Outinthestix
Mar 11th, 2005
12:21 am
Holy Catscock, please don't bring back the corn thread!lol
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: rob
Mar 11th, 2005
12:27 am
Being as that thread was the reason N8 made a corn trippel, I thought it appropriate.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Mar 11th, 2005
12:36 am
"Holy Catscock" ROTFL

Yea, that was a big reason I tried it. I really like it. A bit different, but still tasty.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Mar 16th, 2005
10:31 am
Ok N8, I'm going to make a few things with the yeast, and I think a good one to try would be McChouffe, La Chouffe's darker cousin. I'm thinking of simply swapping the crystal for something darker. I don't think it's quite as dark as stout, and the roasted barley would probably rob too much of the flavour.
I think I've got three options:

Chocolate Malt (UK) Colour 800 EBC Maximum percentage 5%
Roasted Caramalt (Germany) Colour 800 EBC Maximum percentage 5%
Black Malt (UK) Colour 1400 EBC Maximum percentage 10%

Suggestions? Thanks!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: BryansBrew
Mar 16th, 2005
12:42 pm
http://www.achouffe.be/newen/produits.php
Description : Dark Ale, strong, spicy, lightly hoppy, with evoluting taste. Natural Beer, bottle refermented, unfiltered, not pasteurised and without any additives
Alcohol : 8,5% alc./vol.
Original gravity : 16 °Plato

It looks pretty dark- in the 30+SRM range

Some of the descriptions/reviews I read make it sound like toffee and plum/raisin are apparent.

If it was me, I'd go with a belgian kiln malt and maybe some special B.
That roasted caramalt sounds awesome. I've also had good luck with CaraWheat
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Mar 16th, 2005
12:59 pm
It is way dark, it looks like stout in the bottle but pours lighter. It's like a richer, smoother, more intense version of La Chouffe. But notice that apart from the colour, the desciptions are identical!

Maybe I'll use half the amount of roasted caramalt and the same amount of special B. From my supplier:

Roasted Caramalt (Germany) Colour 800 EBC Maximum percentage 5% Another Bavarian special malt used sparingly in many dark German beers, especially those from Munich and Kulmbach. Roasting Carahell malt at very high temperatures, ensuring that there is no burning produces this malt.

Special B (Belgium) Colour 80 - 140 EBC Maximum percentage 20% Special B is the darkest of all unroasted caramel malts. Its distinctive flavour and aroma enhances many Belgian classics.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: DConn
Mar 16th, 2005
5:16 pm
"Some of the descriptions/reviews I read make it sound like toffee and plum/raisin are apparent."...yeah, exactly. I think of it as a Belgian version of a Scotch ale.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Mar 16th, 2005
5:45 pm
I would go with some Special B for the plum/raisin. But also add a bit of something to get the Scotch Ale profile.
I agree that I think it's a Belgian version of a scotch ale. Try the Scotch Silly sometime, a very good Belgian Scotch Ale.
Very good idea with trying the McChouffe. I've got several slurries of the LaChouffe yeast I need to use. Maybe I'll try it along sid you Robson.

I've got several Achouffe bottles. The LaChouffe, McChouffe, N'Ice Chouffe, and another to do an Achouffe tasting some night with a few friends. With four 750mL bottles I think it could be pretty interesting.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: DConn
Mar 16th, 2005
5:59 pm
I LOVE the N'ICE! Rosemary in beer???? Those wacky Belgians!!!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Mar 16th, 2005
6:04 pm
Haven't had the N'Ice Chouffe yet. Excited about trying them all though.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Mar 16th, 2005
6:29 pm
Is the other one Kwelchouffe N8? I never got to try that one, I gave my bottles to my brew buddy. We got through a few La's and Mc's when we brewed the La Chouffe though, I don't quite remember the end of the brew day...

Current plan is to swap the 500g crystal (I actually used carapils in mine) with 250g each of Special B and Roasted caramalt.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: wingnutsglory
Mar 16th, 2005
9:28 pm
N'ice Chouffe is quite nice!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: AZbrewman
Mar 21st, 2005
3:43 am
I just came through Vegas and picked up my first bottle of La Chouffe. Looking forward to it. Drinking Chimay blue right now. mmmmmmm
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: bmemmoli
Oct 25th, 2005
3:38 pm
N8, at what temp did you ferment your clone?

Thanks,

Bill
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Oct 25th, 2005
3:40 pm
Fermented about 70F
It took about 3.5 weeks to chew down to TG.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: bmemmoli
Oct 25th, 2005
3:43 pm
Great, thanks. I tried La Chouffe for the first time this past weekend and was very impressed. Can't wait to try out your clone---
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Oct 25th, 2005
3:44 pm
It's a great recipe, if I do say so myself.
Just be patient with it. It's not a fast fermenter and takes a bit longer than your typical 1056 yeast.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: ckotuby
Nov 14th, 2005
1:51 pm
Sat down to brew this over the weekend, had all the ingerdients on hand but for the yeast, drive to the local homebrew shop to find that 3522 was not available........

settled on 1388 -- the closest sub -- Ive never brewed with it before.....what should I be expecting with that yeast and the above recipe?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: DConn
Nov 14th, 2005
5:00 pm
It will a LOT less estery than LaChouffe or any beer with 3522. 1388 is about the cleanest Belgian yeast I've ever used. More phenolic than estery, really.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: JoeFleischman
Nov 14th, 2005
11:42 pm
I'm sorry if this has been answered N8(77 replies and all) but do you prefer reculturing the yeast or using 3522?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Nov 15th, 2005
12:59 am
I prefer culturing it, But I have used 3522 and it turns out a nice beer.
I've got the La Chouffe yeast in the bank now, so I just have to pull out a slant when I need it.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Tom
Dec 2nd, 2005
6:31 pm
I noticed that you added some saved slurry to the secondary at the time of bottling in your posted recipe. I was wondering how much & what type of priming sugars you used as well.
Tom
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Dec 2nd, 2005
7:20 pm
It was a very calculated process. You'll need to calibrate your equipment.

For the bottling sequence, I added ~1 spoonful of the saved primary slurry. I used the big plastic spoons that most use to for brewing.
For the priming sugar, I used dextrose, alias corn sugar. The amount was determined by the ProMash carbonating calculator.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Tom
Dec 2nd, 2005
7:45 pm
I use Pro Mash all the time. What would be the recommended (or suggested) CO2 levels?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Dec 2nd, 2005
8:15 pm
I typically always use about 2.5 volumes, which I think is the "medium" setting. But, I would go for whatever is to your liking.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Tom
Dec 2nd, 2005
8:21 pm
Thanks for the imput. The recipe looks great. How did it really turn out?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Dec 2nd, 2005
8:39 pm
One of the best beers I've made.
I know that's a pretty relative statement, but I think it came out darn close to LC.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: BrewerBob
Dec 3rd, 2005
2:15 am
N8, I need to brew this beer! I've got to look at my schedule and put this to priority numero uno!!!!!!!!!!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: JoeFleischman
Jan 23rd, 2006
8:37 pm
N8 -

I just brewed your clone on Friday. OG: 1.076, I took a hydro sample today 1.010 (non temp adjusted). Powerfull stuff! Definite alcohol taste but tastes like La Chouffe. I'm sure it's going to age gracefully into a kick butt beer! Wy3522 is a ferocious fermenter - now I'm thinking I probably should have fermented lower (Pitched at 76F)? BTW, my Westmalle tripel clone didn't even - freaking - medal. I'm pretty funkified about it too! I thought it was stellar, just waiting for the judging sheets to get back to Tampa. Oh well.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Jan 23rd, 2006
8:49 pm
YeeHaw Joe,
that was some fast working yeast. Mine took about three weeks to work down to that gravity.
I do know that the alcohol burn will subside with time.

Too bad about the medal, I'm sure it was a great beer. All those beer judges are overrated, anyway
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: dWiGhTSATX
Jan 23rd, 2006
9:04 pm
Joe,

What's your recipe for that Westmalle tripel?

I tried doing one as a parti-gyle but it ended up like an episode of the Three Stooges. Ended up with a 11.5% brew (didn't take in account the attenuation of WY3787-FG=1.009!)... Lagering this brew for 6 months before I try running my car on it.

dWiGhT
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: JoeFleischman
Jan 23rd, 2006
9:24 pm
Dwight-

I'll post the recipe tonight. I'm at work - this is one of the few sites that The Man hasn't blocked. I thought it was great but it didn't medal and I still have to read why. Not complaining, just disappointed. BTW, Denny, if you read this - the keg is drained so I won't be sending any Westmalle your way. Sorry brother.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: dWiGhTSATX
Jan 23rd, 2006
9:31 pm
Thanks Joe,

I would like to see a comparison to what I came up with. Unfortunately with current level of alcohol burn it is hard to evaluate the flavors (especially standing!).

dWiGhT
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: JoeFleischman
Jan 24th, 2006
1:16 am
Here you go Dwight. Bear in mind, I haven't read the final saying by the BJCP'ers. However, I will readilly admit the beer suffered poor head retention, and the SRM was slightly skewed to the dark side. It also has a high IBU - but I got that from Brew Like A Monk. And yes, to me at least, it tasted very much like a Westmalle Tripel.

Westmalle Tripel

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

18-B Strong Belgian Ale, Tripel

Min OG: 1.065 Max OG: 1.095
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 35
Min Clr: 4 Max Clr: 6 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 13.50
Anticipated OG: 1.080 Plato: 19.33
Anticipated SRM: 3.5
Anticipated IBU: 38.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 180 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 10.00 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.044 SG 10.95 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
66.7 9.00 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2
7.4 1.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
25.9 3.50 lbs. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.90 oz. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 18.4 60 min.
0.90 oz. Tettnanger Tettnang Pellet 4.50 15.8 60 min.
0.50 oz. Czech Saaz Pellet 3.50 1.8 15 min.
0.50 oz. Tettnanger Tettnang Pellet 4.50 2.3 15 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: Westmalle

Total Grain Lbs: 10.00
Total Water Qts: 10.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 2.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 80.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High Protein Rest 5 15 131 129 Infuse 141 10.00 1.00
Beta Rest 5 45 144 142 Infuse 210 2.73 1.27
Alpha Rest 5 30 158 156 Infuse 210 4.53 1.73


Total Water Qts: 17.26 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 4.31 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 5.11 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.


Notes
-----

One-half cup homemade caramelized syrup.

Pitch at 64F and bring temp up ov
er course of fermentation to 68F. (Actually I let it rise to ~75 to 78F.) For this batch, I only boiled 120 minutes.

I used a refractometer to double check my gravity with the sugar additions. I added less than 3.5 pounds of sugar.

Caramel syrup: one bottle of clear Karo syrup with an addtional 1.5 cups of table sugar added.
~2 tsp ammonium phosphate
- put on stove over medium high to high heat for ~20 to 30 minutes. Then add cold water to make a heavy syrup.

Was in primary over 30 days! I both forced carbed and primed in the bottle. I think I actually preferred the kegged product.

OG: 1.076
FG: 1.008

Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Jan 24th, 2006
12:06 pm
I got a great beer book for Christmas by Roger Protz, called "The Complete Guide to World Beer", in which he stated that Honey and Bog Myrtle are both included in the brewing of La Chouffe.

Now, I'm not suggesting that the recipe needs altering, it turned out fine for me. But I can't ignore this!

Honey I can live with; unless I use loads of it and it's a strong tasting variety it doesn't make a lot of difference for me, so I can just use some in place of some of the sugar, but Bog Myrtle...? Where can I even get some, what do I do with it, and can I be sure I won't poison myself?

Thoughts?

p.s. I'm not obsessed with this beer, it's just it's about the only thing I've brewed for a while and everywhere I look I seem to uncover more info about it!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
Jan 24th, 2006
3:32 pm
Interesting, Robson.
Bog Myrtle is also known as Sweet Gale. I've heard of Sweet gale used to make wine. I would think it would be a spice tossed in at knock out. as well as the honey. I can't detect much honey in LC, so I think it would be a very small amount mostly used as a way to ramp up the fermentables.
Sounds like a new recipe to try out to me
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Robson
Jan 25th, 2006
11:46 am
I wish I had the time... I'm still wanting to try the McChouffe recipe, amongst others! I'll look out for some sweet gale.
Cheers,
Rob*
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: markm
Oct 2nd, 2006
8:58 pm
Old thread I know but I brewed up N8's La Chouffe clone on Friday. Used a 8 gallon bucket that had plenty of head space. I have never had a beer even come close to reaching the top. Well Saturday morning I woker up and check on the beers I had brewed the night before. Lucky I didn't wait any longer. All the head space was filled with the krausen and it had clogged the airlock. The lid was bulging and about to shoot off the airlock. It has been bubbling away since Friday with no signs of slowing. Jason (blitz357) brewed it Sunday. I called him to tell him to make sure he used a blow off tube. Talked to him this morning and sure enough his was chugging up and out of the blow off tube as well. Moral of the story, use a blow off tube on this beer!!

Mark
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: snappy
May 8th, 2009
1:28 pm
hey n8! i brewed this a couple years ago and it was great. finally getting around to brewing it again tomorrow. i can't wait to taste it!!!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
May 8th, 2009
3:50 pm
wow, there's a zombie thread. And a zombie poster.
Funny you bring this one up. I just brewed it again this past weekend.
Have a good brew.
Glad you like the recipe. It's been a good one.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: DConn
May 8th, 2009
3:51 pm
Hey, snappy, good to see ya again!
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: mjarvis
May 8th, 2009
4:54 pm
Sorry for this post, but this one will make it an even 100....

I've always felt that of all the beers N8 has made, this one sucks the least...

--/\/\--
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: DavidS
May 8th, 2009
5:06 pm
I've quit saying my beer tastes good as well. I also use suck levels to describe it.

Sorry 101.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: AZbrewman
May 8th, 2009
6:15 pm
This threads not done. I have this beer in my plans just not there yet.

sounds real less sucky
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: mjarvis
May 8th, 2009
6:27 pm
On the Suck scale, it's about a -3....

--/\/\--

Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: lawdawg
May 8th, 2009
9:08 pm
I've made it. I have a suck scale too, it rates a Perez Hilton on my scale. Take that how you may......


Then again, I can't brew beer worth a damn.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: DavidS
May 9th, 2009
2:43 am
I don't think we can include Perez on the same suck scale.

And off I go, >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the PUI.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
May 9th, 2009
4:12 am
Oh that was bad.
Bannish the to thy pui-room good sir.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: jmo
May 11th, 2009
3:23 pm
AHA! suspected a zombie, and there it was!!!

Did you know that if you cut them in half with helicopter propellers, they still don't die?!?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Rosace
May 11th, 2009
4:22 pm
I enjoy N8's ah Choof so much, that I even went to great lenghts to buy one of those fancy mortar and pestle thangs at the dollar store just to crush the spice
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
May 11th, 2009
4:35 pm
"I even went to great lenghts to buy one of those fancy mortar and pestle thangs at the dollar store just to crush the spice"

in that lies the secret to the proper Choof brew.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Rosace
May 11th, 2009
4:52 pm
Now all you need to do N8 is come up with a Goliath clone, and I'll be all set
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: natesampson
May 11th, 2009
4:59 pm
The closest I've gotten was by culturing up the yeast from a bottle of Gouyasse and then using the guidelines in the Brew Like a Monk about it.
That has come pretty close.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: calvindcd
Dec 2nd, 2009
3:54 am
Can anyone help me with this? 87.213.59lbs seems off. would like to try this but new to brewing. is it hjust 9 lbs?

87.2 13.59lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2

thanks
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: gray_59
Dec 2nd, 2009
4:04 am
You might know this, but that is a ProMash report meaning 87.2% (the percent of the total grain bill for that particular grain), 13.59 lbs of German Pilsner malt, and then the 1.038 is the potential gravity in points per pound per gallon, and the 2 is the SRM or color of the malt. Hope this helps.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Borealis
May 9th, 2011
3:19 am
N8- Nice tasting recipe. I added a bit of Special B. Went on a tour of La Chouffe. With regard to the hops, I believe they said that they use Amarillo, Saaz, and dryhop with Tomahawk. Anyone else out there take this tour and remember? It's either that or they dryhop with the Amarillo. Check out Witte Pol, Zwarte Pol (White Paul, Black Paul). He was our guide at La Chouffe and has the smallest brewery in Belgium in the same region making only a Wit and a Milkstout both using the Ardennes Yeast. Didn't get to try either as time was short.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: grosace
May 10th, 2011
11:29 am
Borealis,
I believe you are confusing the LaChouffe Houblon with the La Chouffe which is a Belgian style pale ale that N8s recipe was intending to replicate.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Borealis
May 10th, 2011
7:26 pm
grosace,

Looking back at my notes you are probably correct. The only tour was in Dutch and my Dutch is only so so. It's strange as they were not offering this beer (Houblon) at the tasting when I was over there two months ago though. I now see that those are the hops they have on their site explaining the Houblon. My mistake. It was also interesting to me that a two week lagering period was being used as well. I have always used and had good luck with the styrie and saaz in my recipe. This makes good sense. I translated incorrectly.

Borealis
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: liquid
May 15th, 2011
1:40 pm
Morning, took the tour 2x and the hops used to be Tomahawk , Saaz , Amarillo but the recipe seems to have changed over the years, and the beer is lagered for 21 days before bottling or it was a couple years ago.


page 32
http://www.brouwland.com/content/assets/docs/Brouwland%20Hip%20Hops%20final.pdf


As some of the locals told us Houblon Dobbelen IPA Tripel `il a perdu son caractère spécial, I agree it was just bitter with very little hoppy aroma.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Ritualismybeer
Apr 15th, 2012
5:06 pm
Im a relative new all grain brewer. I want to try N8's recipe, but could someone interpret/break this down this for me?

Protein 1 30 123 123 Infuse 133 14.51 1.01
Sacch. 1 60 149 149 Infuse 210 7.41 1.53
Mashouty 1 5 169 169 Infuse 210 12.09 2.37

Thanks
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: brewboy_BB
Apr 15th, 2012
5:33 pm
He's doing a step mash, which I personally don't think is necessary.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: Shannon
Apr 15th, 2012
11:25 pm
BB, would you just go to mashing at 149 for 90 minutes (or overnight)?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: brewboy_BB
Apr 16th, 2012
12:37 am
If it was me, I'd go overnight, but probably start at 153 or so. Overnight mashing yields a very fermentable wort, which it a plus for me. I don't like sweet beer.
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: calvindcd
Jun 14th, 2013
7:32 pm
Hey N8
when do you put in the candi Sugar? end of the boil?
Subject: Re: N8's La Chouffe Recipe
Author: DConn
Jun 15th, 2013
4:46 pm
N8's no longer here. You can add the sugar at any time. I usually add it at the beginning of the boil so I don't forget it.

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