I have been using a caustic deturgent to clean my kegs, I broke down and purchased PBW, I am just curious as to how much solution is recomended to do the job, stuff is pretty spendy and i want to make it last..

read directions its not much but for saving a bit of money just buy oxiclean same stuff basically ..

i read the directions, just states how much to mix for a galon, but does not state how much solution it takes to do the job.

just mix one gallon the shit is strong it wont take much i promise

i used a scoop from my daughters formula after we were done with the bottle. i thnk its around a table spoon per 5 gallon batch. it cleans like a champ.

Oxyclean my be the same stuff but PBW seemed to clean better.

You can reuse PBW. Wait until you have a few carboys and kegs to clean, then fill one up and soak it with the pbw solution. Swirl it around, scrub if needed then transfer to the next vessel. It works better hot, but it still works at room temperature, so you can just soak overnight, then transfer and repeat. Even if the liquid turns greens and is chunky from all the junk left in your carboy, it will still clean the next carboy. Also, be sure to rinse with water that is hotter than the pbw solution. This will get your vessel ready for sanitizer.

I use 2 Tbsp. of PBW per 5 gal. I've used Oxiclean for many years and still do, but after talking to guys from 5 Star at NHC last year, I decided to do a test. I took some buckets and kegs that had been cleaned with Oxiclean and re-cleaned them with PBW. In every case, I gut brownish water when I emptied the PBW. It removed stuff that Oxiclean had left behind. I still use Oxiclean for a lot of stuff, but for critical stuff like fermenters, I bite the bullet and use PBW.

I wouldn't say PBW and OC are the same thing. PBW works so much better removing crud..no scubbing or rubbing..just fill it, let it sit overnight, dump and rinse and it's good to go 99.9% of the time... It may be a bit pricey, but it's worth the money for sure....

I need to testify cuz I'm so freaking amazed...

I use the shirron plate chiller. The thing's been visibly darkened on the inside for a year or two. (no issues, knock on wood!!)

Last fall, I used my grant and pump to recirculate oxyclean through the plate chiller.

It darkened the solution and I was excited, but the plate chiller was still visibly stained on the inside. doh!

I just did the same exact procedure now, but I used PBW instead of oxyclean. And it's freaking spotless inside the plate chiller.

If anyone says PBW and Oxyclean are the same thing, they haven't tried both. I will still use Oxy for some general cleaning, but I'm a PBW fan now!! Amen!

I use Oxy-C for the fist cleaning and for general cleaning,, PBW to finish it off,, this way I keep the PBW fairly clean for more uses,,
also use BLC (Beer Line Cleaner) for, well, the beer lines and taps. and it takes labels off bottles very well..
One Step No Rinse cleaner sometimes also
my favorite= Bar Keepers Friend makes the SS look so nice
Sanitizers= San-star and bar surface sanitizer(very strong chlorine based)

I believe PBW is 3/4oz per gal general cleaning and 1 to 2 oz per gal heavy cleaning,, I go 2 to 3TB spoons per gal hot water

At last year's NHC, one of the guys from Five Star corralled and said "We gotta get you off the Oxiclean!". He gave me some PBW samples and I told him I'd take stuff that I'd cleaned with Oxiclean and reclean them with PBW. I was amazed at the results. I used PBW on buckets that I'd just cleaned with Oxiclen and the water came out brown. The Five Star guy had told me that PBW had chelates that removed organic matter better than Oxiclean. (Disclaimer: I have no friggin' idea exactly what that means). I still use Oxiclean, because it's so inexpensive, but for really critical stuff I spring for the PBW.

PBW contains a small amount of brown dye in it.

haha, i switched to Oxyclean cause everyone said it was teh same as PBW but i found that it takes longer soaks to clean my carboys then it did with PBW and it defiently doesn't clean my keggles like PBW did.

Its about time to switch back.

I buy Oxiclean at Costco when it's on sale. I'll let my stuff soak longer and save money.

Yeah, I buy Oxi at Costco, too. I still use it for a lo of stuff, but at least once every 2-3 uses, I clean my fementers, tubing and kegs with PBW.

Don't be fooled by that dye they put in there.

I wasn't. I was forced by my experience!

I buy the Safeway generic brand Oxyclean and it is definitely not as agressive as PBW. I'll be switching back to PBW next time I hit the HBS.

As with StarSan, buy it in the largest container possible to get nice savings. Go so far as to teaming up with other homebrewers because the price comes down big time. This includes buying a 5 gallon bucket when you buy bulk grains from NCM.

>told me that PBW had chelates

Geez, I'm a chemist by degree and I don't remember what a chelate is. I remember going over them in inorganic chemistry but that's about it. I had to go to wikipedia for to brush up on my chemistry.

Basically, a chelate is very much like a soap. Soaps are molecules where one end has chemistry (aka functional groups) similar to the dirt you're trying to remove and the other end has chemistry similar to the solvent that is being used. So for water based solutions where you're trying to remove grease, one end is polar so that it dissolves in water and one end is nonpolar so it solubilizes the grease. this makes the grease soluble in water.

Chelates are similar except that both, or multiple, ends of the molecule bind to a particular molecule or element preventing that element from reacting with anything else.

Chemistry is cool!

I switched to Oxiclean because everybody was saying it was (almost) as good as PBW. I have huge tub so I'll try it for a while and see. I guess we're in a hobby where the knowledge base keeps growing. Thanks for sharing.

Make a mix of 1:1 with OxyClean (Sun Cleaner etc) and TSP. I've followed a number of threads and this mixture comes back as a popular PBW replacement trick.

This tremendously helped clean up my carboys with years of beer stone developing....

"I switched to Oxiclean because everybody was saying it was (almost) as good as PBW."....I don't want to give the impression that I don't think Oxiclean is _almost_ as good as PBW. From my viewpoint, it is. But PBW is a bit better. Whether it's worth the $ to you or not is up to you. Like I said, I use both.

PBW is far and away a better product for brewers, but like Denny, i consider it unnecessary for minor tasks.

when using oxyclean i just use more of it.

J, you're on to something here. I had to clean my 2 Tuff tank fermenters. They had both gone through 2 batches of beer each, so there was a lot of crud hanging on the sides. I sprayed them down, but I didn't use a brush. I filled them with warm water and with the small Oxiclean scoop, I used half Oxiclean and half TSP. There was about 5 gallons of water in each. I always put in enough to go over half of the 9 gallon capacity, so I can invert them and have the solution make contact everywhere.

After less than 24 hours, I checked them and everything was clean. I've used that same amount of pure Oxiclean with 170+ water temperature and have not had them come out that clean with just soaking. I'm sold and I think I going to mix up a large batch of it. I can't remember what the TSP costs, but it's not that expensive, as I recall.

Thanks for the tip.

FN.... Glad you liked that tip.

Some people use 1:2 OxyClean:TSP others talk about 1:1 ratios.

If you do some Googling I think HBT and a few other locations have some good threads on this. Basically it's a similar mixture of the main ingredients of PBW. Oh and TSP has always been cheap stuff to have on hand....

what is TSP??

Trisodium Phosphate

yeah just googled it is it safe for food surfaces?

As long as you rinse well. Is Oxiclean?

http://www.nationalchemicals.com/msds/documents/08MSDSTSP7_08.pdf

Slightly toxic to rabbits.

Maybe I missed something, but what exactly is TSB?

It's TSP and look up at the last 2 posts.

Paint stripper LOL well paint, mold, mildew, everything stripper ....

Oops

3M , before you knock it, please read the ingredients on your box of dish washing detergent.

Around here, at least, I don't think you can get real TSP because of the phosphates. But there's TSP substitute that's supposed to be just as good.

Denny, if you get a chance, give this a try. I was really impressed with the results. Now my dish washing detergent contains sodium phosphate, so that might work as well. However, I think your state has banned ALL phosphates, if I not mistaken.

I know WA has, and I know they were talking about it here, but I don't think it's happened yet. OTOH, if the subs work as well, that's fine with me. I may give the Oxi/TSP combo a try when my PBW runs out.

The water was brown, as you mentioned, but the fermenters weren't that clean when I tried it either. I had the TSP leftover from a floor staining project I did, so it was a "free" test. I'll keep trying it and reporting back.

For my sample cleaning that I went from... I have carboys I hadn't used in 2 years. They had a scum/brown build up from years of use. Since I wanted to use them for wine I felt they need the extra cleaning. I've been out of PBW for a year so I tried this on them.

Neither carboy tested can I find any beer stone build up any more. I even tried that salt trick to see how beer clean a glass is. For all practical efforts, it pretty much passed that test post cleaning.

Once my keggle comes back from the welder, I'll be hitting them all with this before my next batch...

DC, I highly suggest you try it for the stubborn stains.

I intend to try this on my keggle the next time I do a thorough cleaning. I usually rinse only for 2-3 batches and then go after it with Oxiclean.

John, I'll give it a shot eventually. At the moment, I'm stocked up on PBW and there's no TSP in the house.

Denny, I just want to clarify that the middle letter of that is an "S" and not a "C".

I don't want to grabbing the wrong container.

Hey, J. I've been reading where a lot of people say to use TSP Substitute rather than real TSP. They claim that PBW contains sodium metasilicate and that's what the TSP Substitute has in it.

I used real TSP in my test with great results. What are you using?

Too old for that, David....thanks for the warning, but no problem!

You're right about the sodium metasilicate in PBW. Here's the MSDS...

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/aitdownloadablefiles/download/aitfile/aitfile_id/479/

Exactly, I didn't think anyone had or could get original TSP... Mine I'm sure is the newer formula. I'm currently out of it and will be buying some more. I used the remainder of mine to scrub the bathroom walls before painting...

I am almost out of PBW right now. I am going to try the 1:1 mix next time I am cleaning up my gear. Great tip!

I bought regular TSP a couple of years ago. Not sure if I still can. Here's what I used:

http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00079400.pdf

I just mixed up a pound at 1:1 using real TSP. I put a half teaspoon in each of 2 very stained wine bottles. Filled them with warm water and they were clean in no time.

"Around here, at least, I don't think you can get real TSP because of the phosphates. But there's TSP substitute that's supposed to be just as good."

Hey Denny,
just to let you know, I was at Jerry's Home Improvement Center today. They had the old TSP phosphates and all, and then they had the TSP substitute right next to it.

I read something the other day that led me to believe that the substitute might be better when trying to duplicate PBW.

Well you know thats cool! No phosphates, and works better! Thats totally better for America's river's and stream's. Plus it leaves more fish to mock me and my highly honed fishing skill's.

Yeah but 30 yrs from now we may find the substitute makes your pee pee fall off or some other man made eco-disasters....

Yeah Funny how that works.... Next thing you know they will tell us that you shouldn't dry hop with asbestos.

"Next thing you know they will tell us that you shouldn't dry hop with asbestos"

Great. Just when my asbestone bines were doing so well and I was expecting a bumper crop!

I wonder if I could grow asbestos here.

LOL

probably could. bet they'd do better then your hops do. you can still have mine when I move next year.

Thanks, Pablo. If the ones I moved to my Dad's place take off this year, I'll put yours over there.

BB You have a Dad? Jeez all this time I though you were hatched...

They bought me at Wal-Mart, before they had a return policy.

No kidding, my brothers used tell me I was bought at Pic n Sav for a nickle, I was on sale marked down from a quarter.... I have bad memories and am thinking of suing the government because they allowed my brothers to torment me... lol

J, I think you have a case. A nickel would have been price gouging. LMAO

Thanks... Rock head...

Ya Ba Da Ba doo !!!