Hello fellow brewers,

Has anyone out there used a direct fired mash tun to mash out? Let's say I mashed in at around 153 and i want to mash out after one hour at 167-170. Do I apply heat and stir? Should I let it rest at 167 to 170? Or just go straight into the recirculation?

I have this option, but never tried it.

Let me know whaqt you guys think.

Cool. Thanks.

To do a true mashout and denature enzymes, you need to hold a temp in the 170 range for at least 20 min. If you add direct heat, you should definitely stir. I have doubts about how much value there is to that, especially if you batch sparge. Fly sparging would give you more reason to do a mashout. There's a school of thought that raising the temp reduces the viscosity and allows the wort to flow better, but tests have pretty much disproven that has any beneficial effect on things.

Denny, I have started to recirculate my mash using a March pump and I have direct heat under the MT. Would my efficiency be better if I raise the heat to 168-170 F, rest for 20, then sparge? I have been fly sparging for a while now. In the past I have just started to fly sparge with 168 - 170 F water.

I have found no advantage in efficiency by resting at mashout temps. Although Kai Troester has found that conversion efficiency can be improved simply by raising the temp. Of course, this is gonna vary depending on your system, mash time, and mash temp.

Something's not right here. I thought Kai found that cold sparging had no effect on efficiency. If so, then why would a heated sparge increase efficiency.

I realize that you're actually talking about raising the grain temp, rather than sparging, but it seems like each would accomplish the about the same thing. Am I missing something?

Wow, I've posted this 4 times and it keeps disappearing!

Kai has defined 2 types of efficiency...extraction efficiency (the type we usually talk about in regards to getting the wort out of the tun) and mash efficiency (how much starch is actually converted). According to him, raising the temp at the end of the mash can increase your conversion efficiency, but won't effect your extraction efficiency.

" Although Kai Troester has found that conversion efficiency can be improved simply by raising the temp."

Even though he's looking at them as being 2 different types, that still says your overall efficiency will be improved with a heated sparge vs. a cold sparge. That increase may not be a result of thinning the sugars for better extraction, which I still believe, but from a better conversion. Either way you look at it, maintaining a hot mash increases efficiency. At least that's the way I interrupt it.

Did I mention that Rob gave me deletion privileges on the forum and I've been having some fun with you.

I have personally not noticed any efficiency increase from performing a mash out. However I will generally add water at about 170F at the end of the mash to make up the loss due to grain absorption. I don't consider this a mash out because the grain bed temp only rises a few degrees, I do think it helps to get more sugar into solution, prior to draining the tun. I do sparge with a water temp as high as 180F so as to increase the grain bed temp to at least 160-165F to help with getting as much of the remaining sugar into solution. It would just stand to reason that more sugar will be extracted using hot water to sparge with, considering that sugar is not going to dissolve into solution at lower temps.

Personally, I do a proper MO. I let the HERMS come up to 165-170 and let it rest for 15 minutes. I don't do it for improved efficiency, but I do find that my sparge goes quicker and lessens the chance of becoming stuck.

That is just on my own system and my own personal experiences....

I usually will Mash Our as well.

I find that if your using a powerful yeast like 1469, It's a goof idea to Mash Out to stop it from eating what you don't want it to.
But that's my own preference as well.