Last weekend I visisted a LHBS that I had never been to, but liked their selection. I found they had liquid yeast that were beyond experation for buck a tube. I picked up 3 different one, with the newest esp date 11-08, and the oldest date 5-06.
I got
Cry Havoc
WLP510
WLP575

I made a 1.045 starter from light DME w/ Wyeast Nutrient and proceeded as this is normal for my starters. Get it to 68 and add to the farm.

I have several 1.75L scotch bottles that are my "farm". One Pac-Man and one WLP060 that I had bought previously. I am a tight ass and hate spending that much on yeast, so I figure buy it once, and always keep a culture for starters. So here is what I am doing.

I make a 1.3L ish 1.045 ish starter, once it is fermented out, I place it in the refridgerator let it settle out, then decant about 3/4 of the liquid, as much of the clearest portion as I can. The I cap and shake the hell out of it.

Then I again add 1.045 starter wort to about 1.3L and let go 3-4 days before brew I want to pitch it in.

I never pitch it all, prob about 1L and have 300ml left. When I pitch, I pour off slowly, shaking and swirling to get everything back into suspension, and end w/ 300ml or fairly thick slurry, and add back 1.045 wort to 1.3L level, I will decant and re-wort until I have 1/2 to 5/8 inch of cake, then I can make a starter to pitch again.

Well the bargain yeasts finally took off and have done well through the first starter, I think I did ok.

BUT,
I have a few ? I would like input on please.

Assuming I can keep everything sterile, using sanstar and flaming lips of vessels, can I keep farming these yeasts indefinitely?


Since I have to assume that there were a large # of non-viable yeast cells in the discount vials. But, the strongest survived and appear to have reproduced readily. Think I will need to do a yeast washing to remove the non-viable cells or will they be insignificant? I assume it wont matter as with each re-generation I will not only have new non-viable cells as a small % but also hopefully new daughter cells. What ya think?

I think you should go back, get another one dollar vial of cry havoc and send it to me.

Well honestly I would be happy to decant you a vial full and ship to you with ice pack, you can make a starter and send me back a vial of something I dont have already.
Deal?

They did have a few of the CryHavoc though, but why bother when I know I have a healthy culture going.

Never used it though, what is it like BB?

We could get our own little yeast co-op going. As long as we all were careful in sanitation and kept it up, we should be fine. Just a thought

I've never used it either, but I've heard good things about it.

"can I keep farming these yeasts indefinitely?"
they will eventually mutate, but it will take a long time if you're careful
set aside a vile full and use a small amount of that to farm... keep records on the number of generatons

I only use White Labs yeast (in the words of ancient home brewer: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".. right Dave?

Farming is conveinent too- no need to hit lhbs all the time.

I usually don't reuse after 4 uses.If U want to really stretch it (altho with such a nice buck/vial price,it may not be worth it) U could emulate the Brit home brewers from "back in the day"when they paid so much for yeast-make a starter and only pitch 1/4 and re use it X 3,then go to branch B from the original partitioning and run it X 4 which will give U 'bout 16 runs per vial
As for harvesting,I don't use Starsan/flames etc (FWIW,I never use chemicals preferring to vigorously scrub all my equipment).Sterilizing a Mason jar via boiling a half full jar of water in the M/wave,putting a cover on it and inverting it a few times then releasing the top when upright again before it cools and creates a vacuum works well.I wash the yeast cake with this water.

This is something that has alway puzzled me. Say I take a vial and build a starter with it. I use most of the starter for the beer, but save a little and build it again. Now I store the saved yeast and make starter from that, but eventually it runs low, so I build it again and start over. Is that really a new generation or is a generation only counted as yeast that has seen real hopped wort and higher gravities?

I think it depends a lot on the yeast strain.

Some will run hard and then not produce the same characteristics.
While others that I have done this with never stop.

1469 is one that still keeps it's stone fruit no matter how much I use it.
The cake I've been using since the last run is still going.
If anything it has gotten better threw the Generations.

Yeah, that kinda puzzles me too, because I am always saving a portion of the original culture. I suppose mutation is unstopable, AKA Darwinism. But wouldn't this still promote survival of the fitest?
I guess I just feel that by always adding new growth medium, wort made from light DME, at 1 .040-.045 range, no hops, just that and a 1/2 tsp of yeast nut.

I only reuse 2-3 times if it has been pitched to a fermentor, but these yeasts are kept seperate, once it goes to fermentor, it will never return to the "farm"

So, IDK.

what would be the appropriate size of starter/builder to start a vial with to get a decent amount to save for later? 1/2 gal, 1gal?

I am using 1.75 liquor bolltles to farm in, before pitching I cold crash, decant most of liquid, airlock back in a let rise to room temp slowly, then shake it up good to get cake in suspension, and pitch away, from the very first regeneration I did, I refilled the original white labs baby soda bottle test tube about 3/4 full of slurry and tossed back in the fridge. The my liquor bottle was feed new wort, and away we go again. I think those tubes are about an ounce. Good tube full of thick yeast slurry should be plently to get a good starter later, so, about 1.2 L is what I am doing and seems to be working well so far.

You can start Vials right out of an Activator.

You will need a Loop, Which is made for propagating yeast.
You fill your vials about 3/4th's with fresh wort, dip the loop in the yeast and place it in the wort.

Also, it's best to wear some face mask's so you don't breath on the yeasts.

OHH, goood call Pooper, need to get on that fask idea...

I'd rather use some precaution then end up with bad yeast.

Especially when I've lined up 20-30 vials.

Please take this as seeking info and NOT as criticism but why go to all the plating or inoculating?With the washed yeast stored in sterile jar/water (a lot easier to do) one has no more steps to do to build up a pitchable starter.The oly things vials seem to offer is space saving

Hank,

Now when your trying to cut cost's and have more of the Fresh Strain.
That way when it Mutates or if something goes wrong you always have a Fresh supply of your strain.

And the 1469, You never know when they will release it again.
That way I have it even if they don't bring it out again.

I make 3 separate vials directly from an Activator pack. I mix some DME with Gelatin, let it harden in the fridge, and then streak the yeast. After a week letting the yeast grow I toss it in the fridge and it'll last 3-4 months. This helps curtail mutation issues. You can then re-culture more vials from 1 already in the fridge. That's what I do and so far so good.

Hank,
I am with you and this is what I have been doing. Basically I made a big starter a few times and got a thick cake in my liquor bottles, then I decanted, shook up the rest and the cake, poured a very healthy sample back into the starter vials, and have basically keept the liquor bottle culture going, keep decanting and re-worting, growing the cakes, then de-cant and pitch what I want, re-wort again, etcetcetc

I did a little searching and decided to freeze some yeast I wanted to save. Made a starter let it ferment out then to the fridg. to settle out filled three vial with each strain I was working with. 1 1/2 0z. vial 1/2 oz. yeast 1/4 oz. sterile water 1/4 oz. glycerin 1/2 oz. air space. Mix well tag it bag it let it set in fridg. for a couple of days then into the freezer, NOT THE FROST FREE KIND! Suppose to last a year or more and you can get 4 generations from each vial.