I just got my report but I haven't been able to figure out how to use the spreadsheets that I have found. I am not really too sure about what I am trying to do. I can get the minerals all pretty close to adjusted, but I can't understand how to deal with the pH levels. If someone could help me out with my next brew project, I could probably reverse engineer from the addition amounts and figure out how addition amounts were derived. I am planning an Imperial Stout and using what I believe to be pretty soft water.
Here are the report figures:
pH 7.4
Cations/Anions, me/L 1.1 / 0.9

ppm
Sodium (Na) 11
Potassium (K)

Doug, missing a few things, what else you got?

Ca, Mg, SO4, CL, HCO3

Hmmm.... I don't know where all that went.

pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est. 76
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.13
Cations / Anions, me/L 1.1 / 0.9
ppm
Sodium, Na 11
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 9
Magnesium, Mg 2
Total Hardness, CaCO3 31
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.3 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 1
Chloride, Cl 4
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 40
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 33
"

I am planning a 1.100 OG / 50 SRM Imperial Stout.

(I guess maybe there is a line limit on this forum...This last line disappeared this time also.)

This should help

http://nomograph.babbrewers.com/

I was playing around with that earlier. What I have come up with is for 14 gallons of combined strike and sparge water, I would add 28g. CaCO3 and 5g. NaCl and 11 g. NaHCO3 and 7 g. MgSO4 which would result in"

Na 105
Ca 219
Mg 15
SO4 53
Cl 30
HCO3 504!?

That slides the pH bar up to 6.12 which it says would work for a SRM range of about 26 to 32. I'm targeting almost SRM 50 but the scale doesn't go that high.

I measure for my mash water and balance the Ca vs HCO3. If you can lower your Ca (219ppm) you can lower your HCO3. I also look at the ratio of Cl: SO4, for a softer beer I use more Cl and for things like IPA or pale were I might want a sharper bitterness I use more SO4. For the most part my water is good but for light beers like pilsners I use distilled/RO and go from there.

The thing is, according to the SRM scale on that nomograph, I should actually want to raise the HCO3 even further to do a 50 SRM. The 504 HCO3 only took it to about 30. Am I going to need that Buffer5.2 stuff (or whatever it's called)?

Its just a scale/theory/numbers I'd think more like 20-30 SRM (thats black) and see what you get. Back down both your Ca and alkalinity or keep it on the high scale and only use in your mash and sparge with distilled water. I don't think you will need the buffer. I'm no expert but my pilsners have been better. Just don't over do it.

Thanks, AZ.
I think I'll treat it as if the SRM calculated out to be about 25 and drop down on the CaCO3. The grain bill is one that is listed on the AHA's recipe board of award winners. I have already bought the malts and they are in one bag waiting to be milled, so there is really no adjusting the grain bill other than the base malt. ProMash gives it an estimated SRM of 44.8, but I'll disregard that for now. Any adjustments that I do would have to be better than none.

Hi Doug,

Your water report is almost exactly like ours. I have found that some water adjustment is beneficial for most beers except for the very palest ones.

The additions you came up with for the Imperial Stout are not too far out of line for a beer that dark. I will use between 1.5 to 1.8 gm/gal water. Your are at 2gm/gal which might be a bit too much.

Here is what we used on an Oatmeal Stout Teri made recently. The Promash SRM is 34.

MgSO4 - 0.4gm/gal
NaHC03 - 0.2gm/gal
CaCl2 - 0.2gm/gal
CaC03 - 1.8gm/gal

The profile that we use on all our other beers is called the Ideal Pale Ale profile. It works well for us.

Ca - 110.0mg/L
Mg - 18.0
Na - 17.0
SO4 - 350.0
Cl - 50.0
The HCO3 is not listed.

Thanks Tom,
With 8% of the bill being dark (Roast, Chocolate & Patent), or almost 10% if the Special B should be included, I think I might need some fairly extreme HCO3. What I'm currently considering is Ca 222ppm, Mg 15ppm, Na 126ppm, SO4 53ppm, Cl 85ppm, HCO3 520ppm. For 14 gallons that's 28 g. CaCO3, 7 g. NaCl, 12 g. NaHCO3 & 7 g, MgSO4.
Here is what I want to brew.

Orange American Style Imperial Stout (OASIS)
A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 10.00 Wort Size (Gal): 10.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 46.25
Anticipated OG: 1.097 Plato: 23.15
Anticipated SRM: 44.8
Anticipated IBU: 98.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60 %
Wort Boil Time: 180 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
75.7 35.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 36.00 2
3.2 1.50 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 33.00 2
3.2 1.50 lbs. Chocolate Malt America 29.00 350
3.2 1.50 lbs. Crystal 10L America 35.00 10
3.2 1.50 lbs. Roasted Barley America 28.00 450
3.2 1.50 lbs. Flaked Barley America 32.00 2
1.6 0.75 lbs. CaraWheat Germany 35.00 40
1.6 0.75 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 36.00 25
1.6 0.75 lbs. Black Patent Malt America 28.00 525
1.6 0.75 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 30.00 120
1.6 0.75 lbs. Wheat Malt America 38.00 2

Potential represented as Points per pound per gallon.
plus 2 #s Amber DME (not calculated into mash)

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.50 oz. Summit Pellet 18.50 42.2 60 min.
1.50 oz. Summit Pellet 18.50 25.6 20 min.
3.00 oz. Summit Pellet 18.50 30.6 10 min.
3.00 oz. Summit Pellet 18.50 0.0 Dry Hop


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.00 Oz Sweet Orange Peel Spice 5 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

Wyeast 1098 Brit Ale for half
Wyeast 1762 Bel Aby II for half

That Ca level seems crazy high. Have you considered starting by diluting your water with RO or distilled?

Denny, I don't think that would help much. The original water is only 9ppm anyway. The 222 is almost all from additions. I haven't figured how to get the HCO3 up to the extreme level that I think I will need without bringing something else up too.

I could increase the NaHCO3 and decrease the CaCO3. But, then I would want to decrease the Na by cutting down on the NaCl. Then I would want to raise the Cl level to keep the Cl/SO4 ratio on the malty to balanced side.

I've found using Palmer's Spreadsheet as the best way of getting the water profile you want. Using the residual alkalinity (RA) figure is a simple way of aiming for proper pH. RA is total HCO3 minus hardness (Ca & Mg). But you shouldn't exceed an RA of 250 because there is enough buffering power in the malt. This makes sense because pH is balancing game versus having a certain quantity of bicarbonates.

I would take down your Ca to 150 ppm or lower. You currently have an RA of 283, and an SRM of about 45. I would suggest reducing the amount of baking soda and chalk, and hitting an RA of around 250.

+1 to Palmer's spreadsheet! And double +1 to markymark's suggestions!

I've been working with both John Palmer's nomograph and spreadsheet. I guess I still don't understand how i can reduce both the CaCO3 & the NaHCO3 and keep the RA up. Looking at the nomograph, I would think I need a RA of more than 300 for a 45 SRM. It seems to me that either (or both) the Ca or Na will need to be high just to get the HCO3 up.

Oops, You already said that I shouldn't need a RA of high than 250. I'll go back to the spreadsheet and re-figure.

I think I recall John saying that at an RA above about 200, anything else is meaningless. Personally, I think that getting Ca and Na that high just to get the alkalinity up will cause other issues. You might try emailing JP to see what he says.