Brewing a rye Ipa next, and was considering using some late addition citra for aroma and some flavor. You guys think it would be a weird mix to use both rye and citra? I know its kind of a fruity, irregular hop. Here's what I am thining for a partial mash:

7lbs light lme
.5 lbs cane sugar
2 lbs american two row
2 lbs rye malt
1 lb crystal malt, probably around 60 L
.5 lbs wheat malt

1 oz amarillo @60
1oz amarillo @30
1 oz citra @ 15
1 oz amarillo @ 5
1 oz citra @ DH

wl california ale yeast

p.s.... any tips for using rye? I know it can get sticky

I haven't brewed that exact combination, but I recently brewed a pale ale with 2 oz late addition citra. I also recently had a rye pale ale that made me think that citrus would be a good combination with rye. So, I actually wrote a recipe for a rye/citra pale ale, but decided to try Denny's Rye PA first. So, no, I don't think it will be a weird mix.

Yeah paul, I thought the combo might be interesting at least. I don't know how much citrus I want in this beer, but I was thinking of using simcoe as well, which might be going overboard. I used columbus and simcoe only in my last ipa, and wow, talk about grapefruit and orange... oh yeah, pine too.

If I am going to use citra at the end of my boil, I was thinking of amarillo for bittering and some flavor. Any other suggestions that would compliment the citra?

I add rye to a lot of different ales... I love the earthiness it provides. It's a great addition to a Wit, Heffe, APA, IPA, BW.

If you fear the stuck sparge then either augment some rice hulls or crush coarser. I crush till the rice hulls (which I don't have) are scared. I do notice my run off is a bit slower when I use rye as well but I've never had a stuck sparge except when the dip tube wasn't tightened after a good cleaning.

Citra is new and I haven't done an all citra hop / rye apa yet. hmm maybe I should do that some day.... until then I have no input.....

Ok good stuff to know man. thanks. I think I will add some rice hulls, been reading up on that a little bit. I wouldn't have thought of rye in a wit or hefe, but I love where your head is at.... I would definitely try that idea.

For mine, I bittered with Columbus and used Citra and Cascade towards the end and for dry hopping. Amarillo might work too.

and how'd it turn out? any notes or suggestions? would you change anything for next time? These are the good things for me to know paul. Thanks for your input.

My buddy did a Rye PA and used Magnum for bittering and it turned out great. In my opinion, magnum gives a very smooth perception of bitterness. I would suggest not using amarillo for bittering but that's just my preference.

I am assuming you do a mini mash. Can you explain your basic procedure to me? I have been wanting to do a Rye PA for a while now

Sure, no problem. both my local shops don't carry magnum, that's one that I haven't used yet, but would like to. I did my first partial or mini mash last week, and it went ok. Basically, you'll be adding a small amount of base malt to your normal extract recipe to convert the sugars in grains that normally wouldn not convert without the extra enzymes. (hope that's a good explanation.) So, for my last batch, I used 2 lbs pale malt, (golden promise,) and mashed that with my normal specialty grains for an hour. Im using a 50qt. coleman cooler with a draining device installed in it, which loses heat pretty fast for a partial mash, since there isnt' much grain to hold the heat in. After you're done mashing the grains, then start you would add your extract and sugars and boil as normal. (You'll be subbing some grain for some extract here.) You can use a ton of different options for your mash tun, even your kettle. Let me know how you're going to do a partial, and also if I can answer any more questions. I'm getting this whole process down now, and have been researching like crazy lately to make it a smooth transition from solely working with extract.

Eric.. you are in Denver area..Right!
'Stomp Them Grapes' has Magnum...at least their on line catalog says so.
Just bottled a Raspberry Truffle Porter/Sweet Stout and have a Red Rocket Amber clonealike in fermenter, and I used similar method of adding base to specialty and then steep/mash (1hr @150, 2 gal) - stovetop still for me. All grains in one bag (1 gal 170* sparge) then start boil.
I see nothing but good from it so far. Target G was 1.062 and got 1.066 for RR. Rasp Truf prtr/stout tastes great.
This method seems to drop FG quite a bit from my previous extract attempts. I had been in 1.017 to 1.020 or so with many extract brews.. The Raspberry OG was 1.062 and ended 1.011! So I think the base grains really help!
I'd wager this method will work well with the sticky rye as well! Let me know how it works out and if you used rice hulls or not...for a 'small' mash like this hulls may not be needed as you have pretty good control and can stir a bit - just guessing.

You can always use fresh hops as well. That is where I got magnum from....

Eric, thanks for the explanation of your process. I am still stove top based so I might try something like JWJB. One of the employees at the Brew Hut out in Aurora was telling me that a partial mash is essentially steeping the grains in 150 degree water for 30 minutes. This kind of confused me because that's not what I have heard here. I thought I was limited to using certain grains where "mashing" is not required. It sounds like I need to throw in some 2 row to help convert the specialty grains I want to use.

JWJB- congrats on getting your FG so low. What were your grain amounts? I just did a blonde ale and will be bottling it in a couple days. I am really interested to see what my FG ends up at because it is usually higher than I would like. I have tried everything except a mini-mash to try and get the fermentability up.

Sorry for going off the original subject guys.

I don't think Eric will mind... All info is good info!
For the Raspberry porter/stout I placed 6 lbs light DME in 1.5 gal 170* H2O, added all steeping grains in one bag and 1 lb 2-row in separate bag, steeped all for 1 hour at ~155*, removed steep grains and slowly sparged 2-row over a collander w/1 gal 170* H2O...brought to 3 gal in boil pot and etc. Steeping grains were 1.25 lbs choc 200L, .75 lbs Xtal 40, and .25 lbs Roasted Barley 500L. @15 min added 1.25 lbs light LME, 3 oz lactose, and 5 oz corn sugar... Raspberry Puree and Cocoa nibs in 2ndary + 1 tbl choc extract at bottling. OG was 15 Brix/1.062 & FG was 7.25 Brix/1.011 (corrected). The raspberry taste/flavor is terrific, but could have used a 'tad' bit more choc nibs and/or choc extract for my taste. Yeast was US-05, hops; 3/4 oz N. Brewer 6.1 A 60 min and 1/2 oz Cascade 3.6 A for 25 min. For those who will ask, I did not double ck my FG refractometer brix reading with hydrometer-forgot (the OG brix was spot on with hydro)! Used 2 gal for steep/mash water in my Red Rocket Amber as I had more (lbs) of steep grains- no late extract etc additions though..I'll give you that as well if you like etc etc etc...

I am always looking to make my next homebrew better!

I have heard a lot of people talking about stovetop steeping at around 150 as mashing. I think that is probably pretty accurate, but not quite like doing the method I am talking about. You could even sparge your grains if you wanted to with the normal extract method. adding some two row and managing the temperatures more accutely will most likely give us even greater control and a more fermentable wort, as you were saying. So far my stout I just brewed with this method is down to 1.022, (from 1.073,) and its only been a week, so we'll see if I get any more points out of it.

Eric,

Here's my original recipe. I really like this one and don't think anything needs to be changed. But, I almost never brew the same beer twice. I'd probably try a different yeast next time. I also thought I might try throwing 1.5 or 2 lb rye malt.


Recipe: CPA - Citra Pale Ale
Style: American Pale Ale

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.40 gal
Boil Size: 8.02 gal
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 5.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 46.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 69.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.25 lb Golden Promise (1.9 SRM) Grain 85.42 %
1.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 8.33 %
0.50 lb Carastan (33.0 SRM) Grain 4.17 %
0.25 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.08 %
0.45 oz Citra [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 6 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Cascade-leaf [6.50 %] (Dry Hop 6 days) Hops -
0.80 oz Columbus/Tomahawk-pellet [14.00 %] (60 miHops 38.8 IBU
1.00 oz Crystal [1.40 %] (15 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
0.75 oz Citra [10.50 %] (5 min) Hops 4.9 IBU
0.75 oz Citra [10.50 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops -
1 Pkgs London Ale (White Labs #WLP013) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 12.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 14.40 qt of water at 168.3 F 154.0 F


Notes:
------
1/5/2010: Yeast starter, 1.6 L, on stir plate

Cool man thanks for posting that. Looks tasty. I'm really interested to see how both the rye and the citra play out. I'm shooting for around 85 ibu's, and I'll definitely lose some of that in the boil. Its interesting to see the many uses that people have found for both citra and rye.

Ok here's the updated recipe: all feedback is appreciated.


7 lbs light lme
.5 lbs cane sugar

2 lbs american 2 row
2 lbs rye malt
1 lbs crystal 45
.5 lbs american wheat malt
.2 lbs rice hulls

1 oz amarillo (7.5 aa) @ 60
1 oz amarillo @ 30
1 oz amarillo @ 15
1 oz citra @ (11.1 aa) 15
1 oz citra @ 5
1 oz citra @ DH

1 vial wlp 001 w/1 qt starter

Looks pretty good to me.

If it were me, I'd move the 15-min Citra to 5 or 10 min and the 5-minute to 0 to 1 min. I have no basis for this assertion...

Also, I don't see how the sugar is helps...unless you want another 0.6% alcohol. This looks to be a pretty strong beer as is.

ok final recipe. I'm really trying to limit my heat loss, and am thinking I will do a small decoction on maybe 2 qts. of my wort too. Also, instead of 2/1 qts of water per pound of grain ratio on my mash, I think I'll try 1.25 qts/lb. of grain.

7 lbs light lme
.5 lbs turbinado sugar

2 lbs american two row
1.5 lbs rye malt
.5 lbs british crystal 55
.5 lbs british 75
.4 lbs munich malt
.25 lbs torrified wheat

1 oz simco (12.2 aa) @ 70 min
1 oz centennial (8.2 aa) @ 30 min
1 oz amarillo (8.5 aa) @ 15 min
1 oz citra (11.1 aa) @ 5 min
1 oz citra DH

1 vial wlp001 california ale yeast w/1 qt. starter.

Any final advice or thoughts? I'm brewing this one next week on mon. or tues.