The Berliner weisse thread encouraged me to think of other sour styles I enjoy. You guys tried to brew this? Any recipes you guys could post or process explanations? I'm already going to buy a fermenter specifically for some sour beers, just trying to figure out which style to brew first. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the really sour examples like the duchess, but i really like the more mild examples like Liefman's Goudenbond. (spelling error probably)

My first 25ish gallons are right around 18 months old this month. When I checked them early this summer they still had quite a bit of gravity to drop and weren't acetic at all. I'll be checking them around Christmas since they're in my parent's basement and if they still aren't ready I've got some more bugs to throw at them. My favorite is Rodenbach Grand Cru, so I like them very sour.

Since you're really interested in sour beers you should get Wild Brewing, it's in the same series as BLAM and is equally good. The understanding of how the bacteria do their thing can even be good knowledge for someone who has no interest in sour beer.

Basically you want 20% corn, 20% various crystal malts, and 60% vienna/munich. The mash should create a dextrinous and starchy wort, you aren't shooting for high fermentability because you want plenty of sugars around for the bugs that take a few months to get going. Lightly hop for bitterness only. Pitch a good blend and supplement with bottle dregs, sadly it seems like most FReds are pasteurized and bottle conditioned with just yeast.

I'll post my recipe when I get to my laptop at home, but I really would recommend reading Wild Brews. It has some great info on lambics and Flander's beers. Expect about a year of waiting for the Flanders. I'd get two fermenters for brewing sours, since they take so long...

Edit: Ya beat me Boonie! +1 to all that he said. I followed that recipe pretty much to a "T"

I brewed the Flanders Red from JZ and JP's book Brewing Clasic Styles. I brewed this and fermented this for about75% of the way with S-05 then I transfered it to a 5.5 gal American Oak Barre porchased just for this. I then pitched the Rosalare Strain from Wyeast and left it there for a year. At 6 months I brewed this again and I topped the barree off. It actually took a gal of wort. When I bottled it, I bottled 4 gal by itself and the I blended 1 gal of sour with 4 gal of the unsoured and they both tured out great.

To de-oak the barrel a bit I first put a barleywine in there for 3 weeks and then a RIS for 4 weeks and then aged the Fladers with the bugs in there for a year. It's been over 6 months empty. I want to fill it up again soon. I think a Plambic might an order. We'll see.

Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

Richie

+1.060 to Richie. I did the same thing recipe wise however I am aging in glass using an oak bung. BTW Richie, where did you get your barrel from?

Jamil's promash version of his flanders recipe can be found here:

http://beerdujour.com/JamilsRecipes.htm


Eric check out these podcasts from the brewing network where Jamil talks about the different styles, methods to brew them etc etc.

Flanders Red:

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Flanders-Red-Ale-The-Jamil-Show-01-29-07


Flanders Brown:

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Flanders-Brown-Ale/Oud-Bruin-The-Jamil-Show-10-06-08


Lambics...

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Lambic-Gueuze-Fruit-Lambic-The-Jamil-Show-06-02-08


Mine right now is about ready to be kegged. It has been siting on oak and the bugs since last January.

i just might try that next time. what yeast am i looking for?

Roselare Blend if you can find it by Wyeast. I think it's a VSS though...

Robert is correct, it's a VSS release which in theory means it might never be released again. However, the Roeselare is one that they seem to release as a VSS every year, 3rd quarter I believe. So you just missed it and you _might_ find someone with it in stock yet but it will be rather old. WYeast also has a Lambic Sour Blend(3278) and White Labs has a Belgian Sour Mix (WLP655) which you might consider using if you dont want to wait another year, I am considering using one of them myself since I missed out this year too.

I used the Roeselare but I'm not terribly impressed so far. It seems like it needs additional Brett and bugs to do what it needs to do. Either Lambic blend would probably be fine since it should have a pretty good mix of all the bugs except for acetobacter which I'm not sure the Roeselare has either, but acetic acid is part of the flavor of FReds.

I did forget to mention above that these are usually moved to secondary after a few weeks to keep the Brett from eating the autolyzing yeast. This keeps the funk down and gives a bit more advantage to the acid producing bacteria.

Something to remember with these sour styles is that there seems to be a certain element of luck to the whole thing. Even Rodenbach blends their stuff to make it consistent. So to do this style you need a certain tolerance of failure and plenty of patience. This is why you'll see people doing multiple batches and doing one every year. Such a routine allows you to wait out the aging process and to blend some younger stuff if need-be.

Cool good advice anyone. I'll be consulting this thread in the near future. Now I just have to decide what type of sour to brew.... I normally don't care for brett so I'll prob go with lacto or another strain. Good to know I can ask questions and they will be answered by some vets of sour styles.

Most of the sour styles are a combination of bacteria and yeasts. Berliner Weisse is strange in that it's Sacc and Lacto with an optional low level of Brett. The major contributors to both FRed and Lambic are Sacc, Brett, sherry yeast, Lacto, and Pedio; each of these having multiple strains or even families as well as there being many minor contributors, IIRC they've identified 100's of different organisms in commercial Lambic.

Brett gets restrained in FRed because you take away its nutrient source (autolyzing yeast) so it contributes by breaking down the ropey carbohydrates that the Pedio is making and converts some of the acids into esters, but not to the level of a Lambic.

Wonder how my FBrown will turn out, as I never racked.

I didn't rack half of my FReds. My guess is that they'll have a bit more Brett influence.

Sorry for not replying sooner...

I purchased my barrel from here...

www.1000aoksbarrel.com

I got the barrel in the mail the very next day.

Thanks Richie.

Typo in Richie's reply.
try:
www.1000oaksbarrel.com

Richie....which one did you get?

I got the 5 gal one bit it really is at least 5.5 gal. I'm hoping to buy a 10 gal one because I just ran out of my Flander's Red and wish I had more. So the next time I make this I want to make and age more.

Brewing this tonight, its coming in at around 1.060. I went with european ale yeast for a short 7 day primary or so, and then I'll rack to a carboy and add the belgian sour blend. I think I like the description of that yeast the best for this beer. I'm hoping for an awesome first sour!

Pretty sure roeselare (3763) is year round now. I highly recommend it. The wyeast lambic blend (3278) is good, too.

I'm not a fan of acetic sour beers. Lacto for me, please.

I like lacto also, and not so much brett or even pedio. The yeast I chose seems to have a balance of wild yeasts, but I don't think it will be too overpowering. I'll try an unblended lambic or something like that for my next one!

I've been reading about ways to add enough oxygen to get the sour or acetic character from my yeast blend. Last time I took a sample it was pure brett. I cracked the lid for a few days to try and introduce a tiny bit of oxygen to the batch. You guys ever try any kind of method to enhance the sourness? I'm sure It will develop over time so I'm not that worried about it.