so i'm going to brew up the 'cheswick bitter' for big brew day in honor of mj. now, this is just a wee little beer, 1039, 3.9% abv. 7# pale 2 row, 1/3# crys 120. would upping the base malt to 9# (and upping the crys a little) to up the grav and abv mess up the flavor too much? i really want to stay true to the beer, but man, under 4%??? thats just crazieness!!!

It was Michael Jackson's favorite beer...make it the way it's written this time just for him.

Keep it where its at and use a good English yeast.
I would probably go about a half a pound of Crystal malt.

I tend to keep an Ordinary around 1.039-1.041.
They go down so easy that I always have a hard time keeping 5 Gallons around.
But it's one of my favorite styles.

Hi there Denny.

Hey Shawn.

fine, i guess i'll stick to the recipe. it goes against so many things deep inside of me, but... suggestions for yeast? my hbs has a pretty decent selection of wyeast, and i'll probably head there tomorrow so i can get my starter going. also, the hop bill contains northdown, target, challanger and ekg. i can get the challanger and the ekg's but i know i can't get ahold of northdown or target. my hop chart shows the sub for nd to be target, and the sub for target to be nd. so that's not too helpful...ideas?

"i really want to stay true to the beer, but man, under 4%??? thats just crazieness!!!"

Bosch! Flimshaw!! Merely means you get to drink twice the many.

Right on MrCoffee!!!

For yeast I would say Wyeast 1098 or the 1275.
The 1098 tends to have a very nice bready character.

The 1275 needs some time to work if you don't make a starter.
But I like the flavor of the 1275 better.
I've also made some really great English Bitters with Munton's Dry.

Make what you like to drink.

I thought my best bitter I put in the NHC was perfect. It had some good bitter flavor and a tad on the end that left a little hop there but well balanced and they mentioned "well balanced".

Both score sheets said not enough hops for flavor.

It made me realize that if I want to enjoy what I make I can't brew for the judges.

CLB

CLB,

Not brewing for Judges.
But for the style.

If you've never made or had an Ordinary Bitter it's best to keep it as close to the recipe.
At least thats how I see it.

Then your taste buds can say I want to add some more of this and that.

Hmm, Shawn and English bitters. That brings back old memories.

I seem to see that judges have a perception of what they want. My brew was to style in every aspect.

I'm not saying it was the best beer in the comp but the style scores were 3 out of 5. Thats middle of the road. They just wanted more hops and the hops I had according to promash were in the middle of the style.

All I'm saying is they are looking for a lot of hops in this style and in my case they were looking for more than I had, but my hops were still within guidelines for the style. If I had more hops in it I would not like to drink the beer.

Maybe it's just not my style.......no pun Intended. CLB

CLB

I don't know what your talking about Brewboy,

I just stop in here every once in awhile.
I just happen to like the style.

Must be a different Shawn.

Due has been paid AFAIC....

CLB

Me too.

So it's settled then.............

CLB

You guys got that one figured out now convince me.

LOL

LOL

You want WY1968 for the yeast. It's Fuller's yeast and the beer is a Fuller's beer.

Yeah 1968 will surely get it there.

Not that the others wouldn't make a tasty beer.

Interesting Denny, I never knew 1968 was Fullers. What's the origin of 1275?

Nate,

Look up Brakspears Bitter.
I believe I spelled it right, It's a very delicious Bitter.

I will have to find my recipe I have for it with temps and all.
1275 is a slow starter, So it's crucial to make a big starter with it.

But once you get a cake of it.
All I can say is wow, One of my favorite yeasts to make English Bitters with.

It also makes one heck of a Mild and Brown Ale.

Nate, there's a place or two you can find the sources of alot a yeasts. one and think the most recent it 'Mr Malty'.
Kristen England
BJCP Continuing Education Director
education_director@bjcp.org
Some great info there

Matthew,

Yes if you can afford 10,000 Quid

I drank too much last nite, didn't notice I pasted too much. So I was talking of
Kristen England's list on the mr.malty site. http://www.mrmalty.com
10,000 what? Why? For what?
Head hurts.

Matthew,

My head hurts too.

By the way Denny,

Did Micheal Jackson die?

I took a pill. Now I'm all better

Vic's get the job done...LOL

yup

I have brewed lots of ordinary english bitters, but i can say they have NOT been up to commerical standards, well its nothing like being honesest! anyone one can brew, there is brewing and brewing...i thought it was down to my water, but i treat it, i believe its down to the hops, will build a hop-back-machine soon. I have tasted some commerical beers and i did not think much of them...maybe im expecting too much????


Richard

Yeah, Shawn, a bit over a year ago IIRC.

I'm so sorry to hear that, Denny

I know Micheal he loved his Bitter.

What's the hopping schedule? I'm thinking of making an ordinary bitter this weekend with a similar grain bill.

Look here...

http://beertwon.org/events/bigbrew/recipes.html

Thanks!

So... why is it beertwon.org and not beertown.org?

I spelled it wrong...

oh. well, they both work.

I always use 1968, culture from a 1845 fuller's bottle, it never fails, brill yeast, fast and excellent clarification, nooooooooooooo to so-4..



Richard

Speaking of 1845....not to offend anyone, but that's one of the few British beers I REALLY like. Anybody got ideas for a recipe?

Denny, I have never found 1845 around me so I don't know how it compares to their ESB, But my ESB is alot like theirs( I sent some to N8, ask for 1) and tell me if it is close.

Is there an 1847 Fullers? I have a recpice I got from another site (I printed it off someone elses computer a few years back) the guy says he uses yeast from a Fullers 1847 bottle.I think Fullers ESB is a great beer and was seaching for a clone of that and ended up printing out 'bout 50 different recipes. London Pride is good but is a little on the lite side for me.

I worked for over a year(8-9 attempts) on this recipe, so enjoy

04C. Bitter And English Pale Ale, Strong Bitter / English Pale Ale All-grain

Color

Stats
OG 1.063
FG 1.016
IBU 46
ABV 6.1 %
SRM 9

Specifics
Boil Volume 6.5 gallons
Batch Size 5 gallons
Yeast 75% AA

Style Comparison
Low High
OG 1.046 1.063 1.065
FG 1.011 1.016 1.020
IBU 30 46 65
SRM 6 9 14
ABV 4.4 6.1 6.2



Fermentables
% Weight Weight (lbs) Grain Gravity Points Color
86.9 % 9.25 British Two-row Pale 54.8 4.6
4.7 % 0.50 Flaked Corn 3.1 0.1
4.7 % 0.50 Caramel 2.6 0.5
3.3 % 0.35 British Crystal 50-60L 1.9 3.9
0.5 % 0.05 Roasted Barley 0.2 4.5
10.65 62.6

Hops
% Wt Weight (oz) Hop Form AA% AAU Boil Time Utilization IBU
23.8 % 0.50 Fuggles Pellet 4.5 2.3 FWH 0.156 5.3
16.7 % 0.35 East Kent Goldings Pellet 5.5 1.9 FWH 0.156 4.5
35.7 % 0.75 Chinook Pellet 12.6 9.5 60 0.257 36.4
11.9 % 0.25 East Kent Goldings Pellet 5.5 1.4 0 0.000 0.0
11.9 % 0.25 East Kent Goldings Pellet 5.5 1.4 DH 0.000 0.0
2.10 46.2


The 1/2oz of RB is for color only

Yeast is WLP002
10-14 days at 62
14 day at 55
crash cool and bottle

No there isn't an 1847...


I've only actually had one Fullers beer that was ever descent and that was there London Cream.

Now it doesn't exist in anything.

If you want to have a real English ale in the US theres only one:
Samuel Smiths "Old Brewery Pale Ale".

Theres my comment.

Sam Smith makes a fine ale as well as far as I can tell. I've only had it in the bottles.

Jim DeShields, Just to clarify, your recipe is for a Fuller's 1845 clone, right? And I recognize the other ingredients, but what is 4.7 % 0.50 Caramel 2.6 0.5? Thanks.

I love Fuller's 1845 and it would be great to be able to reproduce that one.

David,
I've never been able to find a 1845 where I live, so it's for the ESB( I don't know how different they are).

The caramel is 8oz sugar placed in a foil pan in a 350f oven until it is completely melted and and deep brown color. You can either add it then or make it ahead of time and cool it .

Jim,
You can mail order 1845 from this site:

http://beergeek.stores.yahoo.net/fu18ale50.html

Okay, thanks Jim.

To reiterate Denny's request, does anybody have a Fuller's 1845 clone recipe? That is an incredibly great ale!

Jim,

May seem like a stupid question but....

is English 2-row the same as Marris Otter? Also what does the Flaked corn do for this beer say than using flaked oats or barley?

Thanks,

Richie

Richie,
MO would be my first choice. The flaked corn lightens the body a lttle and is used by Fullers.

As to 1845 I found this article,( http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/264994 ) which says Amber, Pale and Crystal malt with Golding Hops.
Start there and tweak a few times

Maris Otter is one variety of English 2 row malt. Several different maltsters malt MO.

Thanks Jim and Denny. I will brew this next.

Richie

Richie
Let me know what you think of it and remember it should be low carbed. I used .75oz sugar for 5 gal.
If you have any questions e-mail me.

Denny,
When I said MO would be mt first choice, I meant as opposed to standard Pale malt.

Jim - is that right? Less than an ounce of priming sugar for a 5 gallon batch? Seems like you'd have to shake the hell out of a bottle to get any bubblies at all.

Also, does the 8 oz. of caramel add any color?

Sounds about right jmo, depending on the beer temp at bottling you're around 1.2-1.3 volumes of CO2, which is about right for an ESB.

.75 ozs. ? Must have meant '.75 cups' surely?

75 oz is correct
It's a real ale and you have to pour hard but you'll get a good head but not a lot of fizz in the glass.
jmo I still have your address maybe I'll send you one

Yes the caramel adds some color so I cut the RB from 2oz to .5oz and get about the same color

Now that is interesting - I've never heard of priming sugar wavering much more than an ounce or so from the standard ounce per gallon. I would love to try one . . . and I'll have to try adjusting my bitters accordingly.

Here's my take on Fuller's 1845:

13# MO
1# Crystal 60
1# Amber malt
2 oz. Chocolate

3 oz. EKG @ 60 (target 40 IBU)
.5 oz. EKG @ 30
.5 oz. EKG @ 10

Mash at 152 degF
Target OG = 1.068

On priming, I generally see 1.5 volumes of CO2 as a guideline. For 5 gals. at 65 degF, it takes about 1.6 oz. of corn sugar. I like a little more carbonation, so I prime my English ales at a rate of 3 oz. per 5 gals. for about 2 volumes of CO2.