With all the talk about FWH I thought I'd do a little experiment of my own. I brewed two beers today one with only fwh and another with only a 60min additon to compare.

Both beers

sg-1.039 and 1.038

4lbs GW premium 2 row
4lbs durst pils
mash 149f, 60min

30g hersburker 3%aa, one fwh one 60min

200ml each clean ale yeast form brewery
1min o2, pitched at 60f and 62f
ferment at 64f for 10days, keg at 34f 10days (has not happened yet)

For the tasting I'll have three beers, two the same the other different (I think its called a triangle tasting). If tasters can tell the difference I'd want to know which beer is favored and why? Does fwh bring a softer bittering? Does fwh have more flavor? Will the 60min hop be more bitter?

obviously these two beer are not going to answer all my questions but this will be the most controlled test I've done wth hopping.

Just thought I'd share. Let me know what you think.

So, you used the the same hops and of the same amounts for each beer and made no adjustments for hop utilization? Any other hop additions?

I'll be interesting to see how they turn out.

Excellent experiment . . . lookin' forward to the results.

That's pretty much the same way I did my experiment. If you'd like, I can send you copies of the questions I had my tasters answer.

Denny- I enjoyed your earlier work on decoctions and look forward to this one but I don't see an e-mail address on your site to contact U
THNX

Yes Brewboy, same hops 30g. One beer only 30g fwh hop and the other only 30g at 60min. No adjustments for hop utilzation.

Denny that would be great, thank you.

What I really want to do is one at FWH, 60min, and one at 20min. I'm personal more interested in comparing fwh vs 20min. I've been doing beers were 75%+ of the hops have been 20min or less and have been impressed with the results, even thought the numbers say not going to be bitter enough. I'm getting beer that has a good balance between bitter/sweet. I'm becoming less worryed about the IBUs.


Another time depending on the results I get, I'll do two beers more around the 1.050 mark and use more hops for each addition.

update:

A friend went ahead and did a FWH vs 20min. He keeped everthing the same with both his brews but he used simcoe and a little higher gravity.

Both my brews fermented between 62-64f in my fermention fridge, so things as far as I can see have been very closed to controlled.

Hank, contact info is dennyatprojectoneaudiodotcom

AZ, email me at that addy and I'll shoot ya the tasting forms and a description of how too use them.

Unoffical teasting up-date

I pulled a sample the other day and did the triangle test with a friend. He could tell the diff. The FWH seemed a little sweeter or less attenuated or maltier and/or the 60min seem more crisp. The 60min had a better balance. So today I pulled a sample to check the gravity and the FWH is a little more att., to my suprise. I sipped on both samples and, I don't think I could tell the diff. blindly. I don't have the kegs at the moment to do the test right with many friends but soon.

FWH beer plato- 9.6 to 1.7 ~82% att.
60min beer plato- 9.4 to 2.0 ~78% att.
This might be a problem.

Denny I emailed you from jayfull24 to the address above.

Great...thanks. Sorry I didn't get the tasting info to you yet....sometimes life gets WAY too hectic!

No problem waiting for kegs.

I printed some info on FWHing long time ago (on a friends PC) as I am new to this computer and this forum you guys prolly already read this but I'll post the add? anyway. I was and is still good info>http://brewery.org/library/1stwort.html.

Matthew is their another site for the artical?
HBD says its not there.

edit: never mind I found it

AZ, haven't gotten the email yet...can you send again? I set up a filter that should let me know you're not spam!

At this point both beers kegged. I've had 6 tasters so far. 3 could not tell the difference. I have tasted twice. Two friends and I tasted, we could not tell the diff.

Then two other friends and myself, we all picked right. My friend who I think has a good pallet said the FWH beer was more malty. When I pick'em I too said the FwH beer was more malty.

It was hard to tell the diff. and the IBUs were not very far a part. Not as far as promash said according to my preception (Its like 7ibus vs 15ibus).

Not done but I have more questions now than before and less answers.

Denny I emailed again.

I sent you the tasting forms last night...did ya get 'em yet?

Denny
No, I'll check the "bulk mail"
Thanks again

So far,

tested fwh vs 60min and fwh vs 20min (friend brewed this one)

With the fwh vs 60, I thought they were real close but slightly different. To my suprise I had a hard time telling the differance between the fwh and 60min. I was 50/50 with the testing, I tried it twice. I had four other testers with the fwh vs 60min and they were 50/50. I would like some more tasters but I'm leaning toward fwh and 60 are real close.

With the fwh vs 20min, the 20min brings a lot more hop flavor and aroma. When testing I could tell by the aroma, 20min had a nice light hop aroma. It did have more overall hop flavor and less bitterness.

At this point I will be treating my fwh like a 60min addition.

I wonder if their is more to the fwh technique. I just throw them in when running the wort, maybe the temp. of the first wort has something to do with it (just a stab). More testing

I do plan on testing more. One thing is I'll have the ones that can tell consistanly give some good discriptions of the difference.

Denny I did get you email

I concur, AZBrewMan, AKA the grasshopper

Thats exactly how I taste it too AZ.