I was watching the news, at lunch today, and they were discussing a city ordinance in Austin concerning street solicitors. I didn't catch the actual topic, but they were showing images of people with signs showing "need work", "need food", "homeless" etc. There was actually one guy standing on a corner holding a sign that said "Need Beer".

I don't normally support these people, but had I been there, I might have bought this guy a beer, just for being honest.

Oh yeh! Don't even get me started on the street people in Austin. In a way they keep the city clean. As I've experienced them they are by far the most wacked out, bold and incorrigible group I've ever had the misfortune to come across. I do appreciate the honesty and I'd probably give him $20 so he could get good and wasted for a few days. But he could be working an angle and really wanting heroin.

There were a couple of radio DJs that had a program of giving beer to the homeless. Standby while I google it..............Couldn't find any reference to it.

there is no honesty in "street-people" All they are a viruses and parasites to our society. 4000 people are homeless in dallas, but you only ever see the 100-200 that dont want help and would rather smoke their crack with the change they get from passing vehicles. That whole "honesty" thing has been going around, I've seen them all "Why Lie, Want beer" etc...

And Lex and Terry play "Meal...or No Meal" with them every so often, now thats funny

Having worked in a soup kitchen and helping homeless people in other ways I can tell you that not every homeless person is a crack addicted parastite. Radio shows exploiting homeless people for a laugh? Not very funny IMO.

kinda cruel even.

Many of the homeless are fighting mental illness and can't afford treatment. They try and self medicate with street drugs. Funny thing is we have cut funding for mental health treatment. People are all too quick to look down on these people. You have not walked in their shoes so hold your tongue. Every week I take food to a homeless camp near where I live. I'm also in college and very poor myself but not homeless. I can spare the money I would have spent on soda that week and buy enough food to feed lots of people. 20 lbs of rice can feed a lot of people and it's very cheap. I bring them multivitamins once in awhile trying to fight vitamin deficiencies that are common with the homeless (Cheap food lacks many nutrients). These people are grateful and I have never had a problem with them. They can hardly believe that such a young person cares enough to help them out. They are still people, we all feel pain, we all bleed red. A little compassion goes a long way. Shutting them out is not the answer; it hasn't worked yet, has it?
Some of them do use drugs but why not try and help them? They won't disappear by ignoring them. We should reach out and try and uplift these people and let them become productive members of society. Cutting treatment centers for drug abuse and mental health issues did not help anything. I sleep a lot better at night knowing they are going to bed with full stomachs. One of them said I restored their faith in humanity. So when you think its sooooo bad just to have to see these people holding signs, what is that saying about your own character?
As for exploiting the homeless for a cheap laugh, well, pretty effed up.
Cheers
CN

kudos jake. well stated.

Are there homeless people that really deserve help, yes.

Are there homeless people that are abusing the system, yes.

Are there homeless people that just choose to live that life style, yes.

I posted this topic based on what I saw on the news and face it, it was funny. The guy holding a sign saying "Need Beer" is not, IMO, one to feel really sorry for.

I truly feel that there are people that need help, but I guess my heart doesn't bleed so much that I can't chuckle every once in a while and I feel even more sorry for those that can't.

don't get me wrong, i'm all for a good laugh. i just get irritated over things like the meal or no meal thing. personally, i just don't care for the exploitation of someone's pain just to get a laugh for yourself (or ratings for your radio show in this case).

Honestly I think if I had seen that on the news I would have thought it funny myself but some of the other things mentioned are not so funny.

I think the 'need a beer' signs are funny too. I was responding to the statements made my Robert and Radtek NOT the original topic of funny signs.
Sorry your experience has not been the best with the homeless you have encountered. Have you ever tried to better understand them? Far too many people spew hatred and ignorance when they don't understand something. Its easier then using the opportunity to learn. I'm not saying all homeless are great people but some are. You run into jerks every where anyway.

"there is no honesty in "street-people" All they are a viruses and parasites to our society." You should be ashamed. Are all African American?s drug dealers? Are all Italians in the mob? Are all people from Texas ignorant gun blazing cowboys? I really hope you didn't answer yes to any of those. Your lack of logic and compassion is jaw dropping. Take this opportunity to enlighten yourself. You don't have to give money or care but calling another human viruses and parasites makes me sick. That kind of hate in the past has caused genocide and wars. Should we load them up and eliminate them if they are just parasites and viruses?
Stop and think awhile, please.
Later
CN

Relax, dont worry, have a homebrew!!!....
I think I saw this episode on the Sopranos?..







Age of Quarrel... Cromags NYHC


Strugglin in the streets just trying to survive Searchin for the truth is just keepin us alive Gotta break these shackles gotta break these chains Said the only way we'll do it is if we lose our brains Said there's gotta be some meaning to the purpose of life I know there must be more than the struggle and strife Cause I'm looking for the answers and I need a clue Cause my mind's so disturbed now what do I do? Notice everywhere there's mass confusion and packs of lies We gotta know! We're starin down our enemies in the eyes We gotta know! These are the days of the cheaters and the cheated We gotta know! But we're not gonna bend you know we won't be defeated We gotta know! Cause my minds so disturbed now What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? This planet's turnin into a hell And I figured out that things don't really look too well Reactions coming they're already starting to show But the question is who'll go with the flow You know there's gonna... be a fight Cause somebody's always tryin to keep ya... from doing the right There's always gonna be somebody comin no matter where you go So now you know why we gotta know

Relaxing, not worrying, having a Lagunitas IPA (All my homebrew is at school).
Spring break!
Cheers
CN

someone once told me, never talk about politics, p*ssy or religion ... or something like that..
so we decided to just have a beer...

I think my comments are not out of line. Jake, I deal with the homeless every single day and they receive the utmost in compassion and medical care that I am able to provide. Have you ever pulled a homeless person's boots off and had the maggots spill? How about cleaning them up of their feces and urine, then bringing a meal to them while being subjected to abuse and thanks equally? I think I do pretty darn good with the situation as it is. I agree with many of your points but I can see that you yourself appear judgemental and intolerant of others that might not share your views. I understand this though, and pass it off to youth and impassioned idealism. I hope you are able to maintain it tempered by real wisdom and maturity.

My argument is that Austin's unique culture has created a multi-layered group of street-people that reflects is own eccentricity to that of the local community. Plus, having a state hospital in the middle of town that isn't able to keep people more than 7 days makes the situation quite abnormal. Having lived in many countries and a number of states and yes, including Austin I've come across many of the various types of homeless and I can see the difference. Further, as far as interactions on the street about town itself (which I was talking about) I do consider them unhappy experiences despite having met some ok and interesting folk while passing out food, cigarettes and on the rare occasion- money. I figured I'd probably take some flack for my brief comments and I wasn't disappointed. See you got me started... I'm having a beer.

I'm also in the healthcare field and have worked in hospitals since I was 16. I have seen a lot but still have a lot to see. I have seen maggots pulled out of a 600lb man's leg. I understand the pressures of providing outstanding medical care to people who treat you like crap (Spit on, cursed out, ect.)
My comments to you are general statements about evaluating your beliefs. I didn't know your background and just wanted you to consider why you believe what you do. You obviously have your views based on lots of experience. You have been there and based your beliefs off of those countless experiences, sounds good to me. Thanks for responding back and clarifying your reasoning.
What set me off was Robert's comments about their sub-human status. I'm sure everyone can agree that Robert was out of line and thank you Angler and Jeff for speaking up. It would be great if Robert would explain why he believes what he does, as Radtek did. It's kind of hard to defend "And Lex and Terry play "Meal...or No Meal" with them every so often, now thats funny" WTF!
Happy Days
CN

Robert is a Dallas police officer, I think and if so, I'd be willing to bet that his comments are justified and based on many first hand experiences with the homeless.

Kudos Jake. Yeh, despite whatever particular revulsion or apprehension one may feel for an individual or their circumstance- no person is sub-human! Just isn't possible. I've come to learn reactions to the homeless that appear angry are based on fear at some level. This is actually quite normal and understandable. Once one learns this about themselves they are able to overcome it if they choose to do so.

OK- thanks. I'll restrict my comments to beer and all things beer related if I can.

So the fact that someone is a Police Officer makes "Meal...or No Meal" funny and makes all homeless people "viruses and parasites to our society"?

Sorry, No and No.

This discussion has its place on other sites, but it really has nothing to do with BREWING beer.

So, I'm brewing my Brew Moon wit tonight . . . and watching the U.D. Flyers crush those Buckeyes later in the NIT game . . . and likely drinking homebrewed bitter all the while.

Now the Buckeyes...Isn't that something we can all agree on hating?

Ahhhh, a bretheren . . . I spent 11 years of my life in Ohio, and never got past the arrogance of the many Buckeye fans I knew. I'm sure they're not all that way (well, maybe), but it was hard being a Big Ten fan and not liking the Bucks.

Coctyle and I will be raising glasses in unison to toast the U.D. victory!

How many of you bleeding hearts bring these people into your homes and give them food and shelter? Maybe even give them some of your home brew.

I've hired some people from the shelter as day laborers. It's not easy to find any that aren't already drunk at 7:30 in the morning and when you do find some that aren't, you have to watch them like hawks or some will rob you blind. Others have to be 100% supervised or they just sit around and do nothing.

Do I think a police officer has a right to judge these people, as he sees and deals with them every day? Yes.

OK, I will add my two cents to the flames. I'm scared as hell I will end up like them and that is why they bother me so. Same with mentally ill people, I know its not contagious but still I'm uncomfortable because I'm afraid I will end up like them, homeless and wacked out. Maybe if I'm wacked out I won't remember the way I am now so it won't matter. Anyway, it took some time for me to admit this. Thanks for listening. Now I will have a beer.

With the exception of the ones with serious mental illness, the rest are there because of the poor choices they made in their life. I made poor choices before and was nearly on the street, but I made some good choices and got out of that lifestyle. It's a choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For some, yes. I find it funny how you can speak for ALL homeless. I'm sure you spent lots of time talking to each and every one of them.

All of the homeless are honest, drug free people that just got dealt a bad hand. Oops, I haven't talked to all of them

I never said they were all good ect. Some said they were all bad. I said to give them a chance because there are honest drug free homeless. There are also a lot that smoke crack. Don't group them all together because they are both homeless.

C - well, we tried.

Rough game - it's tough to overcome 80% shooting. I still can't make myself say "go, Bucks", though . . .

Don't forget "Virtual Pub". Robs words.......his place.

We can talk about other things beside beer. I read the above discussion and thought that it was civil for the most part. Lots of opinions around here. We all get the chance to say our piece as long as we don't go around stomping on each others foot.

I can see most of the points from above.

I had a self proclaimed "homeless man" come in my store last week and ask me if he could do a little work for some food money.
He was very nice and respectful. I didn't really have anything for him to do so I gave him some money. When he walked out the door the businessman from the next door came over and asked what he wanted and said the homeless man was in a bar getting drunk the night before.

There are many reasons that people are homeless and I'm sure addiction is a big one.

I did see a special on TV a few weeks ago and it showed one mother daughter team that weren't homeless (although they feigned this) out pan handling.
They didn't work, panhandling was their job. Daily take, about $100.00 each per day . Now that's just wrong.

CLB

So it is OK to find someone sub-human if they are addicted to drugs? Has it not been well established that alcohol and drug abuse are medical conditions?

I personally disagree with this ideas that everyone in an unfortunate state is there because of bad choices while the rest of us are where we are due to our good choices. What happened to the time when people would be thankful for the fortunate position they find themselves in? What happened to the time when people acknowledged their own imperfection and the fact that they are only alive and healthy by the grace of God or fate or whatever they choose to call it? I am an atheist, but I still recognize that most of life is not under my direct control.

I have no special circumstances that make my observations of life more valid than the next person's, but I have overwhelmingly found that one's choices have very little to do with how their lives turn out. I have made many, many poor choices. I should have been in jail or dead due to at least a few of them. I have rarely worked really hard or been challanged to the extent that the majority of humanity is challanged every day, yet I have an extemely comfortable, safe life with many supportive friends and family members to lean on in times of trouble. I am an engineer with a relatively cushy job with excellent pay and benifits. Yes, I have put my nose to the grindstone when it really mattered and made the right decisions when it really mattered, but I can not attribute those well timed, good decisions and bursts of hard work to anything other than luck. Some of my worst decisions actually turned out to be benificial in the long run.

The same goes for just about everyone I know. One of the nicest people I ever knew had bipolar disorder so bad that he went into a period of psychosis and eventually killed himself. Bad choices? Some of the biggest jerks I have ever known have never been depressed in their lives and are very successful. Good choices? I suppose you could see it that way, but I think life is a lot more complex than that.

But before you call me a bleeding heart, I am not saying that we all need to have a homeless love fest or build some giant shelter in every city or anything like that. You could build a shelter with a million beds and some people would choose not to go. I can accept that there are things I can not change and that probably never will change. I just don't think that hatred and anger is ever a useful response to a social problem. Even if we all agreed that homeless people are sub-human parasites, where does that lead us? Does it reduce the number of people on the street? If you want to change things, come up with a pragmatic solution.

I've heard that some people make a decent income panhandling. Quite frankly, I know I couldn't do it now but if I had to I would I guess.

Another anecdote: When I first moved to Austin I was already worldly and considered myself pretty jaded and had almost been on the street once. Actually I was still fairly immature but that is another story... What I didn't know was that in a few months I would be homeless and very desperate! Anyway, I had less than $100 in my pocket, no job and was sleeping on my brother's floor. He hooked me up with a friend who had a landscaping business. This guy told me to meet him on a cross-street off sixth-street by a particular liquor store. What I was to learn later that the very spot was a meeting ground for many of the street-people. Of course the dude was late... So since I love to people watch I was observing the street-people. A guy walked up and started distributing sandwiches from a large box to all the folks lounging around. I remember how good I felt that he was doing this. As I watched I saw a fat chick who I'd seen pan-handling all over town. She was with a group of men just starting to eat their sandwiches. She unwrapped hers and promptly tore the crusts off and tossed them on the ground followed by the baggie. All of the others (probably 10-12 people) stopped eating. All of them looked at her and each other- then tore the crusts off their sandwiches and tossed them on the the ground! She sauntered off followed by a few of the men. The rest dispersed. I remember sitting there looking at this pile of crusts and the baggies starting to blow around by the faint breeze. Something snapped inside me. It was an insight into human nature and American culture that I have never forgotten. I've since come to learn that the World is a hard hard place for many and utter hell for some.

Now, I'm gonna brew a hefe today in my garage and NOT think about the homeless.

Ahh Greg. Cro-Mags reference.
Good album. The latter stuff blew though.
Before anyone judges anything or anyone walk in somebody shoes. You might learn something. You might not like it but life is hard and unpleasent at times! Treat others with respect whether they are homeless or cops or old punk rockers that like the Cro-Mags.
Play nice kids!
Now lets talk about beer.

How many of you bleeding hearts bring these people into your homes and give them food and shelter?


"But before you call me a bleeding heart, I am not saying that we all need to have a homeless love fest or build some giant shelter in every city or anything like that."


I'll take that as a no.

The answer to your question would be numerical, not boolean.

Another no.

"So it is OK to find someone sub-human if they are addicted to drugs? Has it not been well established that alcohol and drug abuse are medical conditions?

I personally disagree with this ideas that everyone in an unfortunate state is there because of bad choices while the rest of us are where we are due to our good choices."

I don't find someone sub-human if they are addicted to drugs , they just made the wrong choice.
As to the medical condition
If I would have cancer I would get it treated. If someone is addicted they should seek treatment, and if they won't then it becomes a mental problem not medical(choice).

You are where you are in life because of your choices, be they good or bad.

So, Brewboy, I take it that you are calling me a bleeding heart? Why? Did I ever say that anyone owes the homeless anything? Did I even propose that anyone feel bad for the homeless? No. I can just accept that fact that there are things I can not change. But appartently, a person is either a bleeding heart or a Nazi, and there is no in between.

Although I am not a Christian, I was raised in a Christian society, and I guess the guy's philosophy rubbed off on me. You know, be decent to each other and all that. If that makes me a bleeding heart, then so be it. The funny thing is, I bet the majority of people who use this forum consider themselves Christian and even go to church every week. Somehow the number of declared Chirstians and the number of people who follow the teachings of Christ or are even aware of them don't add up.

Brewboy, I guess I'm a bleeding heart having helped with homelessness issues for years since I was a teenager but your argument about bringing them into our homes is just plain stupid. Whether or not someone is willing to risk bringing someone who they don't know and has a serious potential for a mental defect into their homes has no bearing on whether or not they have some compassion for these people. Anybody who has worked with homeless people knows that even those who don't have bad intentions can still be unstable/dangerous because of mental defects. A lot of homeless people can be rehabbed, some just need a hand for a bit and some need much more serious help. And before anyone asks, none of my 12 years of helping homeless people was court mandated, all volunteer work. People can help homeless people without risking their lives or the lives of their families but it involves a lot more work than most are willing put forward.

Angler, of all the homeless people you have helped over the years, how many are now leading "normal" lives? By normal, I mean employed, sheltered, groomed and functional. I guess what I am asking has your effort made a long term impact on them?

First off, I'm not a bleeding heart nor am I a Nazi. Neither are the others here that share negative views on the homeless.

I just continue to hear how "society" is not helping this group or that group like it's everyone else's fault, but the people that are in these groups. Many (not all) of the homeless made bad choices or chose to live without any sense of responsibility for themselves or others. You offer them shelters and many won't take them, because there are minimal rules that they have to abide by. Small price to pay for a free roof over their head and a free meal, IMO. I don't feel that I am responsible for a derelict that cares nothing about himself. We all have to be accountable for our own actions.

My Father in law is a great example of a true bleeding heart. He feels the the government and corporations are all corrupt and only taking care of a few wealthy executives. No one is taking care of the homeless or less fortunate. However, he lives in what is probably a million dollar home, with just his wife and with many empty rooms. Why doesn't he bring in people and take care of them? He can certainly afford it, but no, he'd rather just talk about it. Now, I'm not one to defend our government all of the time or big corporations either, but what shape would we be in without them?

I too have extra rooms that could house the homeless, but I don't bring them in, The difference is, I don't whine and cry about how it's "society's" fault for their problems. I, personally, would not call them sub-humans. I reserve that title for the many terrorists now living in this world.

Burp I still see one or two people from time to time, one works at the "local" Wally World (it's 20-30 miles from my house). One of these guys has in turn done the same for others that were in his former situation. I don't know if he was successful in any permanent rehabs.

Brewboy, whining and crying about the plight of homeless people and expressing disgust for tasteless exploitation of them are two very different things.

Well, Brewboy, after your explanation it seems that we are more-or-ess in agreement. That is why I said, "If you want to change things, come up with a pragmatic solution." Note I said IF. Like you, I don't like to hear relatively wealthy people whining about any social problem. I am not blaming you or anyone else for the problem. I don't think that there is anyone to blame, nor is there any real solution.

But, I see no difference between people who wish the homeless would go away and people who wish homelessness would go away. Its the same thing in my mind: Pointless wishing. If my heart bleeds for anyone, it is people that live their lives filled with hate. It has to be a very frustrating way to live.

Also, I didn't mean to imply that you, Brewboy, or anyone else is a Nazi. I just think it is irritating that the slightest bit of understanding or acceptance is labeled as bleeding heart liberalism. These labels just prevent us from actually communicating is a way that is real and useful.

I like what the founders of Ben&Jerry's icecream did back in the 90's. They hired homeless people to staff their shops. Helped a good number of them if I recall correctly. Since they sold out I don't know if the policy still is in practice.

"Street Schitzo Sherbet"

"Chunky Funky-Smellin' Monkey"

. . . and the final punch on my ticket . . .

"That's Not Ice Cream In My Pants" Fudge Swirl




. . . okay, I'll be off to Hell now . . .
(I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints)

jmo... (light slap on wrist)- We got the same sense of humor...LOL

"Chunky Funky-Smellin' Monkey"

LOL

I like what the founders of Ben&Jerry's icecream did back in the 90's. They hired homeless people to staff their shops. Helped a good number of them if I recall correctly. Since they sold out I don't know if the policy still is in practice.



That's how it should be, business taking care of it , NOT the Government.